How to Set Boundaries Without Being a Jerk

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So if you have a really micromanaging boss, just

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outfit them with one of those electroshock dog

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collars. That would be perfect. And then you

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lay the boundary, the fence around your own cubicle.

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And then your boss encroaches on your cubicle

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and it's just sort of, they get a little zap.

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Just a little one. Yeah. Yeah. And then you can

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up the amplitude as. Yeah. You start with the

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little chihuahua sized one and then you go up

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to maybe German shepherd and then you're at like

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mastiff sized shock collar. And then just keep

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a cattle prod in the, uh, in the lower drawer.

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Just advocating violence. In case you need it.

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Welcome to Making Yourself Clear. I'm Chris.

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I'm Patrick. And today we're going to talk about

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how to set boundaries without being a jerk. That's

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a good one. Yeah. It's nice to have some boundaries.

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So sometimes you want to say no, but you feel

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kind of bad about doing it. That's happened to

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me. I don't know if you've had that experience.

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Your mouth says yes, but somewhere inside there's

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this feeling of like... I don't really want to

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do this or I don't really have the capacity to

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do this. You say yes, but you feel no. I think

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I've heard you say if it's not a hell yes, it's

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a hell no. Yeah, I got that from Mark Manson,

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I believe. Author and blogger. He wrote The Subtle

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Art of Not Giving a Fuck, which is brilliant.

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If you haven't read it, you should. Colorful

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words. Yeah. But yes, if it's not a hell yes,

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it's a no. It was a philosophy that he advocates

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for making choices in life. Everything from buying

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an article of clothing. Nah, this shirt's okay.

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Well, don't buy it if it's just okay. Buy it

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if it's like a hell yes, if it's going to be

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one of your favorite things. Because if it's

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not, you're never going to wear it. I've got

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some things I've bought and never worn because

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there's always something I'd rather wear. So

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if it's not a hell yes, it's a no. Articles of

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clothing, taking a job, a relationship, going

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out to an event, all of these things. It's a

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good philosophy. If it's not an enthusiastic

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yes, then what's the point? I'm going to resent

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the time that I'm spending doing whatever that

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thing is more likely than not. And life is short

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and we're inundated. Most of us aren't sitting

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around with not enough to do. There's probably...

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Yeah, there's too much to do. Too much, too many

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options, too much everything. And it makes sense

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to be selective about what you say yes to and

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be pretty ruthless about saying no. And here's

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where people run into trouble, where you're invited

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to a social event, you don't really want to go.

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Maybe you really don't want to go, but... you

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know, you're afraid to voice that or at work,

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your boss says, can you take on this extra project?

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Right. Yeah, that happens for sure. And you're

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already buried and working 12 hours a day. And

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for whatever reason, you're afraid to just say,

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Hey, you know what? I'm at capacity. I can't

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take on any more right now without dropping something

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else. Yeah. Or, I mean, boundaries show up in

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lots of places, right? So we've already started

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to explore examples, but you know, it could be.

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The way that a person speaks to you. Maybe you've

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got a friend or a family member who has a habit

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of speaking to you in ways that you find hurtful

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or disrespectful and you're tolerating it and

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you no longer want to tolerate it. Or I'll go

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back to a personal example. We talked in another

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episode about apologies, I think, about this

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habit I'd been in with my sister of like being

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late for stuff over years. And this was a thing

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that she was just. no longer willing to tolerate.

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So there's a boundary around that. Hey, if you're

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not on time consistently, I'm going to stop hanging

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out with you. I'm going to stop doing things

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with you. Right? All different examples of boundaries.

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And we're not talking about being tough with

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people to the point where you push them away.

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We're not talking about building up walls. We're

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not talking about those kinds of boundaries.

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It's not about being empowered in a way that

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makes you completely unapproachable. It's about

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drawing a line, but being kind and most of all,

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being clear, right? Confident in your choices.

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Clarity around what it is that you're setting

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up as a boundary so that you can honor yourself

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and at the same time, like you said, not be a

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jerk about it. Yeah. And you're touching on something

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useful there, which is there's a way you can

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bark at somebody and you can throw up like an

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ultimatum. Hey, if you don't do this or if you

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don't stop doing that, I'm going to blah, blah,

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blah. And you can be nasty about it. And that

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is seldom most effective. But we I think we do

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it because we. We let resentment build up for

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so long that by the time we finally speak up

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for our values or what we want or need, we've

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let it build up internally for so long that it

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comes out like explosively as opposed to just

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calmly sharing with another person, hey, here's

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what works for me, here's what doesn't work for

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me. And then you're cooperatively navigating

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the contours of the relationship, which can be

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super healthy and cooperative and doesn't have

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to be awkward at all. I mean, even today, my

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cell phone was going off. We just got back from

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a long weekend here. And I took an extra day

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off just to kind of recalibrate because I was

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off doing some stuff in Montreal. And then when

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I came back, like everyone else is at work. I'm

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not. I'm getting inundated with text messages.

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My boss gave me a phone call, emails and texts.

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And I'm sitting here like, this is a day off.

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I'm not going to answer any of this. It's gotten

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to a point now where people are so accessible

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all of the time. It's really difficult to set

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boundaries and it's even more difficult to enforce

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them. Yeah, I talk to clients about this all

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the time. Usually the conversation starts with

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they're overwhelmed, way too much on their plate,

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and it's impossible to find any focus time. I'm

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in reactive mode firefighting all day. Either

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I'm in meetings or I'm responding to Slack messages

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or emails or incoming pings and bings and everything's

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urgent and it's whack -a -mole. You burn through

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the week and realize I didn't have any time to

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attend to the things that I had said were important

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to get to this week. So one of the core things

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we talk about is blocking out a couple of focus

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blocks, like blocks of focus time during the

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week. Maybe it's a Tuesday morning and a Thursday

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afternoon where you've got three, four hours

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of uninterrupted time, but you can't just wait

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for that to happen. No, you've got to be very

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intentional about setting that up. You have to

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set it up. And so that's rescheduling meetings.

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It's actually blocking a block of time in your

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calendar called focus time and letting people

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know you're doing it. Yeah, that's the other

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thing. People don't realize that they're crossing

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a boundary if they don't know where it is. You

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got to tell them what it is. Got to tell them

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what it is. Got to tell them what it is. So,

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and you can tell them why. You can say, hey,

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look, I'm noticing that with the frenetic pace

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of work and communication on all these different

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channels, I'm finding it hard to get to the deep

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work that I need to do at least a couple of times

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a week. Yeah. So I'm trying something. I'm trying

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a couple of blocks of focus time. Here's what

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they are. And I would ask that you not schedule

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anything on top of that. some workplaces you

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can put time on someone else's calendar directly

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yeah so i'm asking you not to do that i've blocked

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it off and also during that time i'll be shutting

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off my email inbox my slack channel all the other

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things yeah don't expect to reply for me during

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those windows i will get to it as soon as i can

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afterwards the reaction to that is oh i can't

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just go totally radio silent so i say okay if

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you have to leave one channel open like the bat

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phone have one bat phone right And even in my

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private life, I have this, like I've got all

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the usual things. I got WhatsApp and Facebook

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Messenger and Signal, but all my notifications

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are off except for text messages and my phone.

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And I let my friends know, if you need me to

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respond on any kind of timeline, like call me

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or text me. Otherwise, I'll check those other

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channels when I get around to it, but no promises.

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So we've done a lot of talking about boundaries,

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right? And you hear that from a lot of people

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too. Just set a boundary, set a boundary. We

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talk about boundaries, but no one really talks

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about how to set boundaries. So that's something

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we're going to dive into. Yeah. We're going to

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talk about why they matter, what they are, what

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they're not, why we struggle with them. And then

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importantly, some practical tips on how to actually

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set up some useful boundaries in your life that'll

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work. So why don't we start with why do boundaries

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matter? Like, why is this a conversation even

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worth having? Why is this important? We live

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in a time where lines are blurred, work -life

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boundaries. don't really exist. I just illustrated

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that. You have some clients who have gone through

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that as well, which can have an effect on the

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emotional bandwidth that you have and with all

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of that texting and everything else. So it's

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really important to set boundaries based on the

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fact that you don't want to burn out. You want

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to be available. You want to be emotionally available.

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You want to be at your best. And when you're

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not setting boundaries, it creates a difficulty

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to do that. Yeah. And I think a lot of it's about

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consciously being in control of how much time

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and energy you devote to different areas of your

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life. For example, like here's how much time

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I'm willing to devote to work. Here's how much

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time I want to spend with my family or friends.

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And here are the kinds of behaviors that work

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for me and that I'm willing to accept from people

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in my life. Here are the kinds of treatment that

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I will not accept. There's lots of different

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contexts, but it's really about getting clear

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on what works for you and what doesn't. And then

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communicating with the people in your life and...

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training them to relate to you in ways that work

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because ultimately if it doesn't work for you

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and you're pretending that it does or you're

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just not addressing it and stepping over it over

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time you're going to build up resentment and

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that's going to etch away at the quality of the

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relationship and you're going to feel increasingly

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negative towards the person yeah and it doesn't

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do anybody any good one example is a micromanaging

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boss right right who's just all up in their business

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all the time and it gets to a point where they're

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contemplating quitting. Like I can't handle much

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more of this. If this doesn't get better, I've

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got to find a new job. And they want to talk

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about polishing their resume. And the first question

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will be, okay, well, have you spoken to your

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boss clearly about this? And the answer is usually

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some sort of sheepish, well, I've kind of hinted

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at it, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's never

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a clear communication. Well, and I mean, that's

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tough too when there's a bit of a power imbalance,

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but regardless of that, if you're not stating

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clearly what your boundaries are. People don't

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realize that they're crossing them. But even

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in the case of the power imbalance, if a person

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gets to a point where they're considering quitting

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their job, there's a conversation that's worth

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having. Because if you're out the door anyway,

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what do you guys lose? Better off sitting your

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boss down and having a conversation about what

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works and what doesn't and seeing if you can

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negotiate a relationship that's going to be better.

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So that's kind of why it matters mixed in with

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a little bit of what they are. Maybe that's a

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good segue into what are boundaries? What do

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we mean when we talk about what boundaries are

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and what aren't they? we've got borders, we've

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got boundaries, we've got limits. You're expressing

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a clear limitation on my time is available from

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here to here. I'm willing to do this. I'm not

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willing to do that. It's a limit. And it might

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be worth distinguishing it from a few different

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things, right? So there are things I would call

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requests that are like maybe preferences. Right.

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Things you can live with, but they're not your

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favorite. They might be mildly annoying, but

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it's not a hard limit. It's not a thing you're

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actually not willing to live with. Boundaries

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are different from requests. They're stronger.

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They're an actual limitation, a thing that you

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realize doesn't work for you and you're not willing

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to have in your life one way or another. We talked

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about feedback, which is sort of similar in the

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sense that the conversation about it might be

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awkward and uncomfortable and you might be reflecting

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something back to someone about their behavior

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that doesn't work. The key difference, I think,

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between feedback and boundaries is that the purpose

00:11:08.889 --> 00:11:12.210
of feedback is to benefit the other person. Whereas

00:11:12.210 --> 00:11:14.669
the purpose of a boundary is to safeguard your

00:11:14.669 --> 00:11:17.090
own well -being. When you offer feedback, it's

00:11:17.090 --> 00:11:18.710
for the other person's benefit and it's a gift

00:11:18.710 --> 00:11:20.509
you give them. A boundary is a gift you give

00:11:20.509 --> 00:11:23.450
yourself just to honor what works for you and

00:11:23.450 --> 00:11:26.529
what doesn't. So we're not talking about ultimatums.

00:11:26.529 --> 00:11:30.330
We're talking about a clear and specific guideline

00:11:30.330 --> 00:11:32.110
for other people to follow. It's an important

00:11:32.110 --> 00:11:34.350
distinction, right? With ultimatums, I looked

00:11:34.350 --> 00:11:36.429
up the definition earlier and it's something

00:11:36.429 --> 00:11:40.639
like final. negotiating position or a final demand

00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:43.700
you make on somebody and then with the threat

00:11:43.700 --> 00:11:47.059
of retaliation or consequence or harm done to

00:11:47.059 --> 00:11:51.399
them otherwise so like in an escalating war dynamic

00:11:51.399 --> 00:11:53.120
right it's if you do this we're going to bomb

00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:55.500
you right there's a punishment element to an

00:11:55.500 --> 00:11:57.879
ultimatum okay so with boundaries it's not about

00:11:57.879 --> 00:11:59.360
punishment it's not about a thing you're going

00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:02.019
to do to another person you're not trying to

00:12:02.019 --> 00:12:05.100
control their behavior you're just getting clear

00:12:05.100 --> 00:12:07.649
on What you're going to participate in and what

00:12:07.649 --> 00:12:11.049
you won't. Right. So it's the choice part isn't

00:12:11.049 --> 00:12:13.830
you better do this or else. It's here's what

00:12:13.830 --> 00:12:16.789
works for me. Yeah. And if we're going to continue

00:12:16.789 --> 00:12:20.169
interacting in a productive way, here are my

00:12:20.169 --> 00:12:23.350
terms. And if not, then, well, that's something

00:12:23.350 --> 00:12:25.009
we should get to. Right. Right. Yeah. So here

00:12:25.009 --> 00:12:26.570
are the things that I find acceptable. Here are

00:12:26.570 --> 00:12:28.470
the things that I don't find acceptable. And

00:12:28.470 --> 00:12:31.490
I'm willing to participate in a relationship

00:12:31.490 --> 00:12:35.039
or interaction or. partnership as long as these

00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:37.279
terms are being met. And if they're not, then

00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:39.840
I'm going to withdraw from the partnership. Right.

00:12:39.899 --> 00:12:41.799
And I think that's an important piece, which

00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:45.200
is if the boundary isn't met, what are you going

00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:47.399
to do? Sure. And it's not something to retaliate

00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:50.279
against them. It's a choice you make for yourself.

00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:52.919
Yeah. So it's not what I'm going to do to you.

00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:54.840
It's what I'm going to do for me. Yeah, that's

00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:57.620
well said. For sure. That also raises a question.

00:12:57.700 --> 00:13:00.639
Can you set a boundary if you're not willing

00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:02.850
to remove yourself from the situation? I think

00:13:02.850 --> 00:13:04.870
you can. It's just a weak boundary. You're kind

00:13:04.870 --> 00:13:07.669
of playing chicken at that point. You're bluffing

00:13:07.669 --> 00:13:10.009
if you're not actually willing to make the choice.

00:13:10.509 --> 00:13:12.529
If what we're saying is true, if our definition,

00:13:12.629 --> 00:13:14.610
like a boundary sets a limit on what you're willing

00:13:14.610 --> 00:13:18.750
to tolerate in your life and someone consistently

00:13:18.750 --> 00:13:21.850
crosses that boundary, if you're not willing

00:13:21.850 --> 00:13:24.750
to remove yourself, then it wasn't a real boundary.

00:13:24.870 --> 00:13:26.470
And so that's something to keep in mind. Like

00:13:26.470 --> 00:13:28.789
you really want to get clear for yourself. is

00:13:28.789 --> 00:13:30.909
this a real boundary or are you just upset in

00:13:30.909 --> 00:13:32.350
the moment and you're trying to label it as one?

00:13:32.509 --> 00:13:35.169
Right. And if it is a real boundary, is it something

00:13:35.169 --> 00:13:38.950
that you're comfortable actually enforcing? In

00:13:38.950 --> 00:13:41.090
my experience, there've been a few points in

00:13:41.090 --> 00:13:42.610
life where I've reached a place where, okay,

00:13:42.610 --> 00:13:45.029
this is actually a boundary, but it's kind of

00:13:45.029 --> 00:13:47.610
after the anger and the upset when there's just

00:13:47.610 --> 00:13:50.169
this clarity that, oh, this isn't working for

00:13:50.169 --> 00:13:53.009
me. And those are the times when I've had conversations

00:13:53.009 --> 00:13:55.330
to end a romantic relationship or quit a job

00:13:55.330 --> 00:13:58.769
and I've actually left. And it wasn't out of

00:13:58.769 --> 00:14:00.730
anger. It was just out of clarity that this dynamic

00:14:00.730 --> 00:14:02.529
isn't working for me. Yeah. I mean, sometimes

00:14:02.529 --> 00:14:03.909
that's going to happen. Sometimes you're going

00:14:03.909 --> 00:14:05.990
to get clear on a boundary after the fact, and

00:14:05.990 --> 00:14:08.049
then you're presented with a choice. You can

00:14:08.049 --> 00:14:10.350
go to the person who has violated the boundary

00:14:10.350 --> 00:14:13.190
and say, listen, this is a boundary for me. It's

00:14:13.190 --> 00:14:16.409
been violated. So in future, I need you to know

00:14:16.409 --> 00:14:17.909
that because you didn't, and I'm giving you the

00:14:17.909 --> 00:14:20.190
benefit of the doubt. Right. Or maybe there's

00:14:20.190 --> 00:14:23.169
something that needs to happen to restore the

00:14:23.169 --> 00:14:28.090
relationship before things can continue. come

00:14:28.090 --> 00:14:29.909
to a point where you go, that was a boundary

00:14:29.909 --> 00:14:33.309
for me. Now I'm clear on it and I'm not willing

00:14:33.309 --> 00:14:36.549
to talk it through because it's a violation and

00:14:36.549 --> 00:14:39.389
I just, I have to move on. I think one of the

00:14:39.389 --> 00:14:42.929
key points here is you don't want to use boundaries

00:14:42.929 --> 00:14:45.529
lightly and you don't want to, you don't want

00:14:45.529 --> 00:14:47.049
to take them lightly when someone else expresses

00:14:47.049 --> 00:14:48.889
one either. No, for sure. Check in with yourself

00:14:48.889 --> 00:14:51.090
to make sure that it's real. In other words,

00:14:51.090 --> 00:14:53.809
it's a real boundary if, and I'd say if and only

00:14:53.809 --> 00:14:57.279
if, you're actually willing to remove yourself

00:14:57.279 --> 00:15:00.539
from the situation if that boundary continues

00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:03.460
to be violated yeah and it's not like a one strike

00:15:03.460 --> 00:15:06.019
and you're out thing necessarily there may be

00:15:06.019 --> 00:15:08.580
habits in place that take some reinforcement

00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:11.720
and reminding and sure a boundary doesn't have

00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:15.139
to be a hard limit necessarily it can be but

00:15:15.139 --> 00:15:17.980
there's also the possibility that it's just you

00:15:17.980 --> 00:15:20.720
let somebody know that hey if you cross this

00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:22.500
particular line we're gonna have to have a conversation

00:15:22.500 --> 00:15:25.269
and if you cross it a second time There's no

00:15:25.269 --> 00:15:27.830
conversation after that, right? Right. Or you

00:15:27.830 --> 00:15:31.129
think of electric fences for cattle or that sort

00:15:31.129 --> 00:15:32.690
of thing. Right. That's a good example. They

00:15:32.690 --> 00:15:34.649
get zapped a few times before they learn not

00:15:34.649 --> 00:15:36.129
to touch the fence. Yeah, there you go. Sometimes

00:15:36.129 --> 00:15:37.929
it might be an electrified fence and sometimes

00:15:37.929 --> 00:15:39.970
it might be a fortified wall. It entirely depends

00:15:39.970 --> 00:15:42.149
on the nature of the boundary. So if you have

00:15:42.149 --> 00:15:44.710
a really micromanaging boss, just outfit them

00:15:44.710 --> 00:15:47.169
with one of those electroshock dog collars. That

00:15:47.169 --> 00:15:48.509
would be perfect. And then you lay the boundary,

00:15:48.649 --> 00:15:52.250
the fence around your own cubicle. And then your

00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:54.009
boss encroaches on your cubicle and it's just

00:15:54.009 --> 00:15:56.529
sort of, they get a little zap. Just a little

00:15:56.529 --> 00:15:58.509
one. Yeah. Yeah. And then you can up the amplitude

00:15:58.509 --> 00:16:00.190
as. Yeah. You start with the little Chihuahua

00:16:00.190 --> 00:16:02.549
sized one and then you go up to maybe German

00:16:02.549 --> 00:16:04.409
Shepherd and then you're at like Mastiff sized

00:16:04.409 --> 00:16:07.049
shot caller. And then just keep the cattle prod

00:16:07.049 --> 00:16:10.070
in the, in the lower drawer. Just advocating

00:16:10.070 --> 00:16:12.269
violence. In case you need it. Let's talk about

00:16:12.269 --> 00:16:13.710
some things that boundaries are not. I mean,

00:16:13.730 --> 00:16:16.450
we cover this a little bit, but they're not ultimatums.

00:16:16.450 --> 00:16:18.309
Like you said, it's not, if you do this, I'll

00:16:18.309 --> 00:16:20.970
do that to you. It's here's what I'm willing

00:16:20.970 --> 00:16:24.429
to live with. And if this continues or if X or

00:16:24.429 --> 00:16:26.269
Y does or doesn't happen, like I'm going to have

00:16:26.269 --> 00:16:29.549
to make a choice for myself. Yeah. It's not doing

00:16:29.549 --> 00:16:31.269
something to the other person. It's doing something

00:16:31.269 --> 00:16:35.210
for you. It's a subtle difference. And like in

00:16:35.210 --> 00:16:38.230
the context of a relationship, if the choice

00:16:38.230 --> 00:16:40.190
is I'm going to remove myself from it, the other

00:16:40.190 --> 00:16:41.870
person may hear it as an ultimatum because there's

00:16:41.870 --> 00:16:44.149
a pretty fine line between I'm not willing to

00:16:44.149 --> 00:16:46.750
live with this. Like say if your partner has

00:16:46.750 --> 00:16:48.909
a habit of yelling in arguments and you really.

00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:51.460
aren't willing to be yelled at. It's like, I

00:16:51.460 --> 00:16:53.740
won't tolerate being yelled at in a relationship.

00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:55.820
So this needs to change or I'm going to have

00:16:55.820 --> 00:16:58.500
to reconsider. They may hear that as an ultimatum

00:16:58.500 --> 00:17:01.279
and practically speaking, there's not much difference,

00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:03.480
but the intention is different. So it's not,

00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:05.359
I'm punishing you. It's I'm protecting me. Taking

00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:07.539
the yelling thing, right? You could say the next

00:17:07.539 --> 00:17:10.660
time you yell at me, I'm gone. I'm leaving. Or

00:17:10.660 --> 00:17:12.559
you could put it in terms of, I'm willing to

00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:14.500
have this conversation, but we can't raise our

00:17:14.500 --> 00:17:17.359
voices. You're saying the same thing. you may

00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:19.220
want to be explicit about the severity of it

00:17:19.220 --> 00:17:21.259
or how important it is to you. Because one thing

00:17:21.259 --> 00:17:22.920
is sort of a preference. It can be like, I prefer

00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:25.440
not to be yelled at. And another might be, hey,

00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:28.059
I'm actually unwilling to be in a relationship

00:17:28.059 --> 00:17:30.680
where this is a dynamic. Yeah. It's not about

00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:33.000
changing somebody else, right? We're not setting

00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:34.859
boundaries to make people behave differently.

00:17:35.220 --> 00:17:37.140
So I think that comes back to what we were just

00:17:37.140 --> 00:17:38.839
saying. I'm not trying to change your behavior,

00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:41.180
but I'm letting you know what I'm willing to

00:17:41.180 --> 00:17:45.500
accept as treatment. So you can yell. But I'm

00:17:45.500 --> 00:17:48.680
not going to be here for it. Right. You can continue

00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:51.819
to yell. In a sense, it's both people have an

00:17:51.819 --> 00:17:54.480
opportunity to make their own choice. Right?

00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:56.740
Like, I'm not telling you you can't yell. I'm

00:17:56.740 --> 00:17:58.579
telling you that if you choose to do that, I'm

00:17:58.579 --> 00:18:00.720
going to have to choose to leave. And both people

00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:02.819
can be... That doesn't mean you can't yell. You

00:18:02.819 --> 00:18:05.299
can keep yelling. I just won't be here for it.

00:18:05.339 --> 00:18:06.960
You just got to find someone who's comfortable

00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:08.960
with yelling. Right. That's not a boundary for

00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:11.900
them. Yeah. And there's something like this might

00:18:11.900 --> 00:18:14.559
almost feel like a bit of a semantic game we're

00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:16.700
playing. You can yell, I'm just going to leave.

00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:19.299
How is that different? How am I not trying to

00:18:19.299 --> 00:18:20.559
change your behavior? And how is that not an

00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:25.039
ultimatum? And I think the differences in the

00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:28.140
background, right? One of them is I'm trying

00:18:28.140 --> 00:18:30.079
to dominate you and make you do a certain thing.

00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:33.180
Another is, hey, we're both mature adults with

00:18:33.180 --> 00:18:35.859
agency to choose. And I want you to know that

00:18:35.859 --> 00:18:37.799
these are the kinds of choices I'm going to make

00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:41.460
for myself. I want this dynamic to work, but

00:18:41.460 --> 00:18:44.210
here's what will and won't work for me. if you're

00:18:44.210 --> 00:18:46.269
okay with choosing differently for the sake of

00:18:46.269 --> 00:18:49.490
this working, then that's great. If not, then

00:18:49.490 --> 00:18:51.650
maybe this isn't a fit. Yeah. You're not trying

00:18:51.650 --> 00:18:53.210
to dominate a person when you're saying like,

00:18:53.309 --> 00:18:56.109
here's what's acceptable for me. It's the intention

00:18:56.109 --> 00:18:58.490
I think is different behind it and the energy,

00:18:58.549 --> 00:19:01.509
the vibe. And I think that brings with it the

00:19:01.509 --> 00:19:03.970
idea of boundaries being considered selfish.

00:19:04.609 --> 00:19:07.089
If I'm thinking of it through the lens of, well,

00:19:07.109 --> 00:19:08.829
if I break up with you, that's a selfish choice,

00:19:08.890 --> 00:19:12.049
then yeah, it might land as an ultimatum or as

00:19:12.049 --> 00:19:15.349
a punishment. But if I'm looking at it as I've

00:19:15.349 --> 00:19:17.390
just got to take care of myself and I've got

00:19:17.390 --> 00:19:19.549
to make sure that I'm doing what's right for

00:19:19.549 --> 00:19:22.410
me, then it's not a punishment. It's not something

00:19:22.410 --> 00:19:23.829
I'm doing to someone else. It's something I'm

00:19:23.829 --> 00:19:27.369
doing for me. Right. The thing about boundaries

00:19:27.369 --> 00:19:28.950
being selfish, I think this is where a lot of

00:19:28.950 --> 00:19:31.809
people, especially people with like people pleasing

00:19:31.809 --> 00:19:34.769
tendencies, get in their own way about it, especially

00:19:34.769 --> 00:19:37.130
at work. It's either I'm being selfish or if

00:19:37.130 --> 00:19:39.430
I say no to this extra assignment, then my boss

00:19:39.430 --> 00:19:41.950
will think. That I'm lazy or I'm not productive

00:19:41.950 --> 00:19:45.150
enough or there's some kind of fear or some kind

00:19:45.150 --> 00:19:48.730
of imperative we impose on ourselves. It's something

00:19:48.730 --> 00:19:51.029
like if I hold a boundary, you connect that to

00:19:51.029 --> 00:19:53.869
some moral failure on your part. And that's so

00:19:53.869 --> 00:19:55.650
backwards. Yeah. I mean, I've worked with a lot

00:19:55.650 --> 00:19:58.309
of people who are people pleasers and a lot of

00:19:58.309 --> 00:20:00.250
it comes back to, well, I don't want to be rude

00:20:00.250 --> 00:20:02.730
and I don't want to put somebody else out. We

00:20:02.730 --> 00:20:04.569
talk ourselves out of it in so many different

00:20:04.569 --> 00:20:09.449
ways and we tend to lionize our own. cowardice

00:20:09.449 --> 00:20:11.970
in a certain way because we're afraid to just

00:20:11.970 --> 00:20:15.809
speak up for ourselves. And then we turn that

00:20:15.809 --> 00:20:18.750
hesitation and that lack of boundaries into a

00:20:18.750 --> 00:20:20.549
virtue in some way. I'm just a giver. I'm just

00:20:20.549 --> 00:20:22.730
generous. I'm just an empath. There's a lot of

00:20:22.730 --> 00:20:24.529
ways you can lie to yourself about this. When

00:20:24.529 --> 00:20:26.430
you're setting a boundary, as long as you're

00:20:26.430 --> 00:20:28.910
not being a jerk about it, you're treating someone

00:20:28.910 --> 00:20:31.529
with enough respect to let them know honestly

00:20:31.529 --> 00:20:35.109
what works for you in the relationship or partnership

00:20:35.109 --> 00:20:37.789
and what doesn't. I'm giving you the map. Yes.

00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:41.220
Let's take the flip side. Who's been in a relationship

00:20:41.220 --> 00:20:44.740
where things are humming along and then seemingly

00:20:44.740 --> 00:20:46.380
out of nowhere, your partner is really upset

00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:48.619
with you for something and you find out that

00:20:48.619 --> 00:20:50.539
they've been upset with you for this thing you've

00:20:50.539 --> 00:20:53.259
been doing for months. Yeah. And you didn't know.

00:20:53.380 --> 00:20:55.740
You had no idea. You had no idea. Sure. So by

00:20:55.740 --> 00:20:59.380
not stating a boundary earlier, they've denied

00:20:59.380 --> 00:21:02.730
you of the opportunity to know how to. relate

00:21:02.730 --> 00:21:04.589
to them in a way that works one big one is the

00:21:04.589 --> 00:21:06.369
threshold for cleanliness right people have different

00:21:06.369 --> 00:21:08.190
thresholds for what is clean and what is dirty

00:21:08.190 --> 00:21:10.450
yeah like in terms of a house like what's messy

00:21:10.450 --> 00:21:12.549
what's neat what's messy what's neat yeah so

00:21:12.549 --> 00:21:15.390
like if i finish with a plate of food and i put

00:21:15.390 --> 00:21:17.430
it in the sink and then i'm gonna clean it later

00:21:17.430 --> 00:21:19.450
in the evening like that might be acceptable

00:21:19.450 --> 00:21:21.670
for me or later in the month or later in the

00:21:21.670 --> 00:21:23.970
month there might be some people out there who

00:21:23.970 --> 00:21:26.650
see that and you know it's like as soon as you're

00:21:26.650 --> 00:21:29.650
done you clean your tools you put them away so

00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:33.359
that creates some difficulty in navigating relationships.

00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:35.599
It does. If you were to do that over and over

00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:37.440
and over, and the person you're with is a neat

00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.579
freak or someone who has a lower threshold for

00:21:39.579 --> 00:21:42.599
messiness than you, and you don't know it, and

00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:44.079
then all of a sudden it becomes this big argument,

00:21:44.259 --> 00:21:46.259
it's like, hey, hang on. I didn't realize that

00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:48.700
leaving a dish around was going to create this

00:21:48.700 --> 00:21:51.619
kind of... Right. And most people in relationships

00:21:51.619 --> 00:21:54.380
generally want... their partner to be happy.

00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.240
Yeah. Because if your partner's not happy, it's

00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:58.539
going to be a hard time for you as well. So you

00:21:58.539 --> 00:21:59.900
want to know how to make your partner happy.

00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:02.839
One of the ways you can help the relationship

00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:05.059
is by being clear about your boundaries. You're

00:22:05.059 --> 00:22:07.440
telling your partner how to make you happy. You're

00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.819
telling them how to win the game. It's like you're

00:22:09.819 --> 00:22:13.240
giving them the cheat codes. Yeah. Yeah. It creates

00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:15.980
a space where there's less resentment. It creates

00:22:15.980 --> 00:22:18.519
a space where there's less confusion. And it

00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:20.160
creates a space where there's less conflict.

00:22:20.460 --> 00:22:24.019
And there's clarity. Yeah. It's a cleaner energy

00:22:24.019 --> 00:22:26.500
overall. I had to laugh when you talked about

00:22:26.500 --> 00:22:31.359
the neat freak versus slob continuum. Yeah. So

00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:34.259
my father had a lot of distinct characteristics.

00:22:34.339 --> 00:22:37.259
One was that he was a neat freak for sure. Right.

00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:42.220
And he was also a master at boundaries and maybe

00:22:42.220 --> 00:22:43.880
erred on the side of being a little harsh at

00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:46.700
times. Okay. So one of the things was if there

00:22:46.700 --> 00:22:48.799
were crumbs on the counter, this was upsetting

00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.140
to him. you know as a teenager i was up later

00:22:52.140 --> 00:22:54.799
than him almost every night and so there was

00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:56.200
this thing where if he woke up in the morning

00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:57.619
and there were crumbs on the counter from some

00:22:57.619 --> 00:23:00.180
snack i had at midnight i would hear about it

00:23:00.180 --> 00:23:03.079
right and this was so often that this became

00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:06.559
a thing crumbs on the counter so one night i

00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:07.839
don't know what i was doing i opened the pantry

00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:10.460
and it was this typical suburban pantry full

00:23:10.460 --> 00:23:13.720
of all the spices and baking goods and flour

00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:16.180
and all the things that are not a snack right

00:23:16.180 --> 00:23:18.900
but that are just in a pantry and one of them

00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:22.400
was this cardboard cup of breadcrumbs, you know,

00:23:22.420 --> 00:23:24.099
the kind you get, you might mix them into a hamburger

00:23:24.099 --> 00:23:26.759
or whatever you do with breadcrumbs. Yeah, exactly.

00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:30.380
So, uh, so I poured some on the counter and then

00:23:30.380 --> 00:23:33.619
with like a credit card, I formed them into this

00:23:33.619 --> 00:23:36.700
neat little three letters, Abe, that was his

00:23:36.700 --> 00:23:39.940
name. So I spelled his name, breadcrumbs on the

00:23:39.940 --> 00:23:42.740
counter and just left them there, uh, as a little

00:23:42.740 --> 00:23:45.140
way to test a boundary. I don't remember how

00:23:45.140 --> 00:23:48.420
it went. I found it, I found it hilarious. I

00:23:48.420 --> 00:23:51.000
couldn't have been that bad if that's the part

00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:53.099
of the story you remember. I can't imagine. I'm

00:23:53.099 --> 00:23:55.420
here to tell the tale. And I continued to live

00:23:55.420 --> 00:23:57.220
there for several years afterwards. So it obviously

00:23:57.220 --> 00:24:01.700
wasn't a hard boundary. So yeah, boundaries are

00:24:01.700 --> 00:24:04.099
good for clarity. Clarity is good for everyone.

00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:07.460
Like a lot of these things, we often become aware

00:24:07.460 --> 00:24:09.400
of a boundary violation in the moment when it

00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:11.660
happens because we're upset. Yeah. Like, oh,

00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:14.779
that upset me. It's a boundary. That's not always

00:24:14.779 --> 00:24:17.769
the best time to talk about it. No, probably

00:24:17.769 --> 00:24:20.029
not. No. Just because it's not the best state

00:24:20.029 --> 00:24:21.970
of mind to be in to talk about these things.

00:24:22.190 --> 00:24:23.950
But that's a great way to know what your boundaries

00:24:23.950 --> 00:24:25.670
are. That's a great tool. That's a great insight,

00:24:25.809 --> 00:24:28.049
right? If I'm frustrated or upset by something,

00:24:28.230 --> 00:24:30.230
it's probably because there's a boundary that

00:24:30.230 --> 00:24:31.950
was violated and it might not be something that

00:24:31.950 --> 00:24:33.990
I'm aware. It might be. I mean, there are the

00:24:33.990 --> 00:24:35.369
big ones. There are obvious ones that you're

00:24:35.369 --> 00:24:37.349
going to have in your life, but there are also

00:24:37.349 --> 00:24:39.269
going to be more subtle ones that maybe you don't

00:24:39.269 --> 00:24:41.569
even realize are boundaries for you. And then

00:24:41.569 --> 00:24:43.390
when you have that moment of frustration, it's

00:24:43.390 --> 00:24:45.930
also, it can create a moment of clarity for you.

00:24:46.710 --> 00:24:48.630
It's almost always the case, I would say, that

00:24:48.630 --> 00:24:50.950
the way that you become aware that you might

00:24:50.950 --> 00:24:52.750
have a boundary is you notice that you're upset

00:24:52.750 --> 00:24:54.670
about something. And sometimes it's a thing that

00:24:54.670 --> 00:24:56.990
happens like one time and you realize, oh, this

00:24:56.990 --> 00:24:59.569
is a boundary. Like if you're in an argument

00:24:59.569 --> 00:25:00.829
with your partner and they're throwing plates

00:25:00.829 --> 00:25:02.309
around the kitchen, it's like, okay, well, this

00:25:02.309 --> 00:25:04.349
is violence. That's not okay. Yeah, I'm not okay

00:25:04.349 --> 00:25:07.130
with it. One time you get clear on that one.

00:25:07.170 --> 00:25:09.390
Other times it may slowly creep up on you. Like

00:25:09.390 --> 00:25:12.460
the work -life balance thing. May not happen

00:25:12.460 --> 00:25:14.240
all at once, but over the course of weeks or

00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:17.299
months, you realize that work is creeping into

00:25:17.299 --> 00:25:19.339
the rest of your life. I get an email every time

00:25:19.339 --> 00:25:21.579
I take a day off. I'm not comfortable with that.

00:25:21.619 --> 00:25:23.259
That's not going to work for me, right? My day

00:25:23.259 --> 00:25:25.980
off is my day off and I can't be having phone

00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:28.299
calls and I can't be having emails and I can't

00:25:28.299 --> 00:25:30.500
be having, you know, Slack messages coming in.

00:25:30.900 --> 00:25:33.200
Yeah. And when you're upset, when you notice

00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:36.480
resentment building or anger or frustration over

00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.519
time or suddenly, like that's a good place to

00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:40.000
look. Is there a boundary here that I haven't

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:42.519
acknowledged and that I haven't communicated

00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:45.059
to the relevant other people? The other thing

00:25:45.059 --> 00:25:47.259
about boundaries is sometimes a boundary might

00:25:47.259 --> 00:25:50.500
no longer serve you. That's something to consider

00:25:50.500 --> 00:25:53.799
as well. Like, is this a boundary that you absolutely

00:25:53.799 --> 00:25:57.460
have to enforce and it has to be there? Or is

00:25:57.460 --> 00:26:00.319
it something that maybe might be an insight into

00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:02.240
an area where you might need to make a shift?

00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:04.079
Is this pointing out a blind spot to you? That

00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:06.400
frustration, that resentment? It might be pointing

00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:09.000
to a boundary, but there might be another layer

00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:11.339
to it. Very good point. Because sometimes when

00:26:11.339 --> 00:26:12.819
we get upset about things, it's our own triggers.

00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:16.079
Sometimes it's a me thing, not an out there thing.

00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:19.279
And this isn't licensed to just go and start

00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:21.440
making demands that the world conform to your

00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:23.759
preferences because you're not willing to deal

00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:27.700
with your own unresolved stuff, right? So you

00:26:27.700 --> 00:26:29.619
want to check in. Is this a me thing? Is this

00:26:29.619 --> 00:26:32.559
a thing I need to work out for myself? Is this

00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:34.279
a thing I should be this upset about? I would

00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:36.690
argue. My dad could have softened his take on

00:26:36.690 --> 00:26:39.430
the crumbs on the counter a little bit, but sometimes

00:26:39.430 --> 00:26:43.470
it's not a you thing. It's a, or it's not a you

00:26:43.470 --> 00:26:46.349
thing that you're willing to work on. Right.

00:26:46.430 --> 00:26:48.630
Like we can bring acceptance to all sorts of

00:26:48.630 --> 00:26:50.829
things. You know, you hear stories about people

00:26:50.829 --> 00:26:52.670
that are wrongfully convicted and they're in

00:26:52.670 --> 00:26:54.029
jail for the rest of their life and there's like

00:26:54.029 --> 00:26:56.210
nothing they can do. And you've got to find a

00:26:56.210 --> 00:26:58.930
way to bring a mindful acceptance to that. Right.

00:26:59.609 --> 00:27:02.230
Because you have to in that case. Right. But

00:27:02.230 --> 00:27:04.660
if you're not at a place where you have to. It

00:27:04.660 --> 00:27:06.819
reminds me a bit of the accept it, change it,

00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:08.839
or leave it. For sure. Sometimes there are things

00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:11.240
that are going to happen in your life that you're

00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:13.500
not excited about, and you have three choices.

00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:15.099
You can accept the fact that it's happening,

00:27:15.180 --> 00:27:18.420
and you can navigate it. You can try and change

00:27:18.420 --> 00:27:22.339
it. Or if that doesn't work for you, then you

00:27:22.339 --> 00:27:25.220
can leave it. Or option four is to suffer. We

00:27:25.220 --> 00:27:27.460
usually start behind door number four in the

00:27:27.460 --> 00:27:29.839
suffering mode, which is how we know that there's

00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:32.019
something we're not happy with. And then it's,

00:27:32.019 --> 00:27:34.309
okay, if I don't want to suffer anymore, I can

00:27:34.309 --> 00:27:36.650
accept it, change it, or leave it. And when we

00:27:36.650 --> 00:27:39.450
say accept, I don't mean accept in like the resigned,

00:27:39.630 --> 00:27:41.450
resentful acceptance. Well, that's suffering.

00:27:41.569 --> 00:27:44.450
That's the suffering. Yeah. It's the truly making

00:27:44.450 --> 00:27:47.549
peace with it. Yeah. And in any long -term relationship,

00:27:47.710 --> 00:27:48.809
there are things about your partner you're going

00:27:48.809 --> 00:27:50.930
to have to accept. Things that might annoy you.

00:27:51.369 --> 00:27:52.910
And then you realize, okay, I don't want to die

00:27:52.910 --> 00:27:56.250
on this hill. I love this person. This part of

00:27:56.250 --> 00:27:57.930
them, I'm just going to accept as part of the

00:27:57.930 --> 00:28:00.049
package. I'm no longer going to get upset about

00:28:00.049 --> 00:28:01.789
it. Dan Savage has a great saying where he says,

00:28:01.849 --> 00:28:04.720
no one is the one. There are some .85s out there

00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:05.859
that you're going to have to round up. Round

00:28:05.859 --> 00:28:08.680
up, exactly. Yeah, he calls it the price of admission.

00:28:09.019 --> 00:28:10.940
Right. So, you know, if you want to ride the

00:28:10.940 --> 00:28:12.500
ride, you got to pay the price of admission.

00:28:12.500 --> 00:28:14.220
This is the price of admission. Yeah. So some

00:28:14.220 --> 00:28:15.839
stuff goes in that category and you say, okay,

00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:17.519
I'm just going to accept this, meaning I'm going

00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:20.990
to chill out about it and just let that be. And

00:28:20.990 --> 00:28:22.210
then there's some things that are just not going

00:28:22.210 --> 00:28:24.170
to be acceptable. Right. And that's when you

00:28:24.170 --> 00:28:26.269
have the conversation of, you know, is this something

00:28:26.269 --> 00:28:29.089
that can change or is this something that it's

00:28:29.089 --> 00:28:30.529
just not acceptable and I have. And then I have

00:28:30.529 --> 00:28:32.190
to leave it. Yeah. So that's precisely where

00:28:32.190 --> 00:28:34.849
we are in that continuum. Things that you start

00:28:34.849 --> 00:28:40.089
off not liking are unwilling to accept and make

00:28:40.089 --> 00:28:42.529
peace with indefinitely. Yeah. And so now your

00:28:42.529 --> 00:28:44.650
options are change or leave. And the boundary

00:28:44.650 --> 00:28:47.609
conversation is in hopes of not having to leave.

00:28:47.910 --> 00:28:50.509
Right. So it's. Another way that that's not a

00:28:50.509 --> 00:28:52.190
threat, right? You're not saying it with the,

00:28:52.329 --> 00:28:55.329
I'm trying to force you to do something differently.

00:28:55.589 --> 00:28:57.490
It's, you've gotten to a point of clarity, which

00:28:57.490 --> 00:29:01.150
is, I want to stay in this, this job, this relationship,

00:29:01.289 --> 00:29:04.289
this friendship, this band, whatever it is. Sure,

00:29:04.289 --> 00:29:06.569
whatever it is. And in order for that to work

00:29:06.569 --> 00:29:08.670
for me, here's some ground rules. Here's some

00:29:08.670 --> 00:29:10.869
terms. And if everyone can agree, then great.

00:29:10.950 --> 00:29:13.069
We get to keep doing this. And if not, then I'm

00:29:13.069 --> 00:29:15.470
just clear that I need to go. Accept it, change

00:29:15.470 --> 00:29:17.569
it, leave it, or continue to suffer. Or continue

00:29:17.569 --> 00:29:19.930
to suffer. But if you choose door number four,

00:29:20.029 --> 00:29:22.150
continue to suffer, you kind of forfeit the right

00:29:22.150 --> 00:29:23.849
to continue to complain about it. You still made

00:29:23.849 --> 00:29:26.289
a choice. You made a choice. Yeah. Now, some

00:29:26.289 --> 00:29:28.690
people love to suffer and love to complain. Misery

00:29:28.690 --> 00:29:31.289
loves company. And misery loves like a pulpit.

00:29:31.430 --> 00:29:33.829
Yeah. There will be some non -starters for you.

00:29:33.890 --> 00:29:35.809
There will be some things where they're just

00:29:35.809 --> 00:29:39.650
hard nose. Right. Like for a lot of people, physical

00:29:39.650 --> 00:29:42.029
violence in a relationship, hard boundary. Hard

00:29:42.029 --> 00:29:44.410
boundary. Right? Yeah. And it should be. And

00:29:44.410 --> 00:29:46.089
then there may be some boundaries that are a

00:29:46.089 --> 00:29:48.849
little more flexible, a little softer. preferences

00:29:48.849 --> 00:29:52.990
right so there's some room to get around and

00:29:52.990 --> 00:29:55.049
some boundaries that they might no longer serve

00:29:55.049 --> 00:29:56.990
you and you might decide it's a good point too

00:29:56.990 --> 00:29:59.430
right these are not set it and forget it for

00:29:59.430 --> 00:30:02.470
life no it's we we evolve and we change and we

00:30:02.470 --> 00:30:05.470
grow through life and something that might have

00:30:05.470 --> 00:30:06.970
been a boundary before might not bother you as

00:30:06.970 --> 00:30:09.289
much anymore and vice versa you might may have

00:30:09.289 --> 00:30:11.470
a new boundary that starts to show up like in

00:30:11.470 --> 00:30:14.150
my younger days pulling an all -nighter for work

00:30:14.150 --> 00:30:17.400
was a thing i did regularly Like in the startup

00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:20.700
world, that was normal. And I didn't have a boundary

00:30:20.700 --> 00:30:22.640
about that. It was, if that's what the job required,

00:30:22.779 --> 00:30:24.799
that's, that's what I did. Yeah. Wouldn't do

00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:27.279
that at this stage in life, partly because I

00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:30.180
don't have to, but also partly because at my

00:30:30.180 --> 00:30:32.500
age, when I miss a night's sleep or when I miss

00:30:32.500 --> 00:30:34.960
even a couple of hours of sleep, like it, I suffer

00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:36.940
so much more the next day. Yeah. 29 is hard.

00:30:37.420 --> 00:30:40.400
Right. It is. It is. You're almost 30. You're

00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:45.519
getting up there. Yeah. 49 is even harder. I

00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:47.539
have some friends who have been, they're married

00:30:47.539 --> 00:30:50.059
actually. And when they started, one of them

00:30:50.059 --> 00:30:52.000
had some political beliefs that the other one

00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:54.500
was like, I'll never date a person who has voted

00:30:54.500 --> 00:30:57.400
for this particular person. And then they got

00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:59.140
together and started talking about it. And it

00:30:59.140 --> 00:31:01.220
was like, oh, this is a very small part of who

00:31:01.220 --> 00:31:03.319
you are. There's a lot more that make you up

00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:04.859
as a human being. And I'm in love with all of

00:31:04.859 --> 00:31:07.980
those things. And I'm willing to sort of drop

00:31:07.980 --> 00:31:10.220
that hard boundary of. Well, there's even relationships

00:31:10.220 --> 00:31:13.480
where one of the standard boundaries for most.

00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:17.019
marriages or monogamous relationships is monogamy

00:31:17.019 --> 00:31:19.359
right like it's you don't get to you don't get

00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:21.720
to do anything sexual with anyone else outside

00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:24.019
of these and some relationships after however

00:31:24.019 --> 00:31:26.900
many years together decide they want to relax

00:31:26.900 --> 00:31:28.400
some of those boundaries they want to explore

00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:30.299
in some way they explore dating other people

00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:33.900
or whatever and that so you can consciously renegotiate

00:31:33.900 --> 00:31:37.519
these things but it's a conversation or a series

00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:40.619
of conversations that need to work for everyone

00:31:40.619 --> 00:31:43.140
involved so so that has to be talked about That's

00:31:43.140 --> 00:31:44.099
something that you have to have a conversation

00:31:44.099 --> 00:31:46.140
about for sure. Yeah. You don't just get to rearrange

00:31:46.140 --> 00:31:48.319
someone else's boundaries and go, ah, it felt

00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:50.940
kind of soft. You can't just move the walls around

00:31:50.940 --> 00:31:53.039
the house without consulting with other people

00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:56.059
who are affected. So we've talked about boundaries,

00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:57.960
what they are, what they're not. We give a bunch

00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:00.859
of examples. Is it time to get to the how -to?

00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:03.420
Yeah. If we could unpack how to create a boundary,

00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:04.960
because it's great to talk about boundaries.

00:32:05.019 --> 00:32:06.819
It's great to tell people that they need boundaries

00:32:06.819 --> 00:32:08.579
and they need to be flexible about boundaries.

00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:11.779
But what if I've never... seen boundaries being

00:32:11.779 --> 00:32:15.059
created in a way that that i can replicate like

00:32:15.059 --> 00:32:16.339
everything i think it starts with the mindset

00:32:16.339 --> 00:32:20.240
like remembering this is not a an angry punishing

00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:23.140
thing it's not an ultimatum it's just clarity

00:32:23.140 --> 00:32:24.759
you've gotten clear on what works for you and

00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:27.059
what doesn't and you're communicating this to

00:32:27.059 --> 00:32:31.819
the other stakeholders in service of a continued

00:32:31.819 --> 00:32:35.220
mutually workable relationship whether that's

00:32:35.220 --> 00:32:38.549
professional or personal or otherwise so The

00:32:38.549 --> 00:32:41.230
mindset is this isn't harsh or negative or threatening.

00:32:41.470 --> 00:32:44.549
It's just clear. It's just clear. And it can

00:32:44.549 --> 00:32:46.569
be delivered in a neutral or even cooperative

00:32:46.569 --> 00:32:49.849
friendly tone, but it's, you need to be firm,

00:32:49.849 --> 00:32:52.450
but clear and you can be kind about it. And it's,

00:32:52.450 --> 00:32:57.849
it's a courageous adult thing to do. Yeah. So

00:32:57.849 --> 00:33:00.009
the first thing you need to do is figure out

00:33:00.009 --> 00:33:03.289
where you need boundaries, right? Is this a space

00:33:03.289 --> 00:33:05.839
where I need to set a boundary? And if yes, then

00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:08.059
continue. So step one, notice that you need a

00:33:08.059 --> 00:33:09.619
boundary, which we talked about already, right?

00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:12.500
Notice your body, notice your emotions. If I

00:33:12.500 --> 00:33:14.539
tense up, what does that mean? What is that saying

00:33:14.539 --> 00:33:16.940
to me? If I'm frustrated, what does that mean?

00:33:17.019 --> 00:33:20.099
What is that saying to me? Yeah. And is it at

00:33:20.099 --> 00:33:23.920
a point where you're actually no longer willing

00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:28.259
to accept this dynamic or this thing in your

00:33:28.259 --> 00:33:30.740
life? Because then it's definitely a boundary.

00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:32.880
Yeah. Like if you are genuinely at a point where

00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:35.720
it's... I'm not willing to live with this, then

00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:37.940
that's a clear sign that that's a boundary. Yeah.

00:33:37.980 --> 00:33:40.339
So you mentioned resentments earlier, right?

00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:43.240
If I'm feeling resentment towards someone or

00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:46.140
something, that might be a signal that you need

00:33:46.140 --> 00:33:48.559
to create a boundary in this space. Yep. Feeling

00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:51.839
exhausted, always feeling tired, always feeling

00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:53.900
like you're giving, never feeling like you're

00:33:53.900 --> 00:33:56.759
being replenished or revitalized. You know, I'm

00:33:56.759 --> 00:33:59.400
tired every single day. If you're feeling that

00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:01.680
kind of just - That exhaustion. That exhaustion.

00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:04.400
You're tapped out. Between work, driving the

00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:06.720
kids around, taking care of the house. Yeah.

00:34:06.819 --> 00:34:08.780
All the things, when it becomes too many things.

00:34:08.980 --> 00:34:10.800
Yeah. You may need to carve out some boundaries

00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:13.460
just to have some recharge time. So that's another

00:34:13.460 --> 00:34:16.179
one, right? Too many things, that sense of overwhelm,

00:34:16.179 --> 00:34:19.340
that sense of anxiety, frustration, overwhelm.

00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:21.260
So if you're noticing yourself shutting down,

00:34:21.340 --> 00:34:24.000
that might be another indication. And you can

00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.679
ask yourself some questions like, if you've got

00:34:26.679 --> 00:34:30.179
leaky boundaries or no boundaries or porous,

00:34:30.179 --> 00:34:32.469
weak boundaries that you... either haven't stated

00:34:32.469 --> 00:34:36.650
or aren't reinforcing sufficiently. Another way

00:34:36.650 --> 00:34:37.769
of saying that is that there are things you're

00:34:37.769 --> 00:34:40.849
tolerating in life. And I have this hypothesis,

00:34:41.309 --> 00:34:44.030
life will deliver to you precisely the amount

00:34:44.030 --> 00:34:45.389
of bullshit that you're willing to tolerate.

00:34:45.909 --> 00:34:48.389
No more, because by definition, you're not willing

00:34:48.389 --> 00:34:51.550
to tolerate more, but also no less. If you're

00:34:51.550 --> 00:34:54.550
counting on life's generosity to dole out less

00:34:54.550 --> 00:34:57.289
bullshit than you're willing to take, I wouldn't

00:34:57.289 --> 00:34:59.889
bank on that. It will max it out right to the

00:34:59.889 --> 00:35:03.679
limit. Every time. So if you want to get clear

00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:05.900
on how much bullshit you're willing to tolerate,

00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:08.199
take inventory of how much you have in your life

00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:10.539
and that's your answer. And if you would rather

00:35:10.539 --> 00:35:12.599
have less bullshit in your life, you got one

00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:15.079
control and that's your tolerance level. How

00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:16.780
much are you willing to tolerate? And the way

00:35:16.780 --> 00:35:18.719
to tolerate less bullshit is to set better boundaries.

00:35:18.820 --> 00:35:21.619
You got to just dial that down a bit. But what

00:35:21.619 --> 00:35:23.219
am I tolerating that isn't actually working for

00:35:23.219 --> 00:35:25.420
me? If we're asking questions, like where am

00:35:25.420 --> 00:35:27.400
I putting up with bullshit where I shouldn't

00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:30.510
be putting up with bullshit? Right. Yeah. Because

00:35:30.510 --> 00:35:32.889
you might notice how different people in your

00:35:32.889 --> 00:35:35.250
life have different amounts of bullshit in their

00:35:35.250 --> 00:35:37.369
lives. Yeah, yeah. You might be envious of the

00:35:37.369 --> 00:35:39.469
amount of bullshit that somebody has. And some

00:35:39.469 --> 00:35:41.389
of that might be privilege and wealth and other

00:35:41.389 --> 00:35:43.969
things. Sure. But also a lot of it is just where

00:35:43.969 --> 00:35:46.570
they set their tolerance level. Yeah. If you

00:35:46.570 --> 00:35:48.929
start off in the same place and end up in very

00:35:48.929 --> 00:35:51.250
different places, it's sometimes because one

00:35:51.250 --> 00:35:53.590
of you is willing to tolerate more stuff in your

00:35:53.590 --> 00:35:55.090
life that didn't work than the other. And the

00:35:55.090 --> 00:35:57.670
other tolerated less and then had more bandwidth

00:35:57.670 --> 00:36:00.440
to pursue things that furthered their own. Goals,

00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:03.860
wishes, dreams. Yeah. A good exercise is if there

00:36:03.860 --> 00:36:06.239
were no consequences to what you were going to

00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:08.380
say or do, what would I say if there were no

00:36:08.380 --> 00:36:10.039
consequences? Where would I create some boundaries?

00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:13.420
Totally. And then cost is another thing. Yeah.

00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:16.480
Like what's it costing you to continue tolerating

00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:18.119
things that you know you don't want to? Yeah.

00:36:18.280 --> 00:36:21.300
Are you anxious? I have had some clients who

00:36:21.300 --> 00:36:24.199
have said that to me, right? I wake up in a cold

00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:27.019
sweat at 4am because I know that the clock is

00:36:27.019 --> 00:36:30.679
going to hit six in two more hours. Wow. So what

00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:33.400
does that tell you? Right. Yeah, definitely a

00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:36.280
sign. The bigger question, and this is the end

00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:38.000
of the bit about why do we not do this very well?

00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:39.739
Why do we suck at this? Is what are you afraid

00:36:39.739 --> 00:36:41.280
will happen if you set the boundary or if you

00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:44.559
try to? The benefits are pretty clear. Why don't

00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:46.920
we do it? Well, we're afraid of something, right?

00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:49.239
And it is either that we're afraid of someone's

00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:51.599
reaction. I don't want to upset them. If it's

00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:54.059
with my boss, I don't want them to fire me. Or

00:36:54.059 --> 00:36:57.630
it can be a self -imposed. judgment like oh if

00:36:57.630 --> 00:36:59.949
i do this that means i'm selfish or that means

00:36:59.949 --> 00:37:02.550
i'm a bad person or if i set boundaries around

00:37:02.550 --> 00:37:04.610
how many events i'm willing to drive my kids

00:37:04.610 --> 00:37:07.610
to then i'm a bad parent or yeah it's the then

00:37:07.610 --> 00:37:09.869
piece and then this judgment you impose on yourself

00:37:09.869 --> 00:37:13.250
that might get in your way and that's worth really

00:37:13.250 --> 00:37:16.530
examining closely because there are a lot of

00:37:16.530 --> 00:37:20.429
martyrs out there who suffer they'll suffer long

00:37:20.429 --> 00:37:23.960
and hard rather than actually creating a life

00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:26.199
that works for you and therefore works for everyone.

00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:28.260
Yeah, I can remember working with one person

00:37:28.260 --> 00:37:30.599
and they were talking about a partnership, a

00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:33.139
business partnership, and they wanted to extricate

00:37:33.139 --> 00:37:35.019
themselves from the business and just sort of

00:37:35.019 --> 00:37:37.659
get bought out. And they were staying in the

00:37:37.659 --> 00:37:39.880
partnership for a long time. And eventually I

00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:41.280
just sort of said like, what's holding you back?

00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:42.820
Why are you not setting this boundary? What's

00:37:42.820 --> 00:37:45.800
the cost? What are you afraid of? And they said,

00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:47.599
well, I don't know how they're going to survive

00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:51.800
without me. And I was like, okay, they will.

00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:54.400
they'll be fine. Right. Or maybe the business

00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:56.039
will fail, but it's not somewhere you want to

00:37:56.039 --> 00:37:57.840
be anyway. And if it is, then maybe you talk

00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:00.300
to them about buying them out. But when they

00:38:00.300 --> 00:38:03.480
heard themselves say it, they just kind of snapped

00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:06.960
out of it. And I just heard this huge ego come

00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:08.920
out of my own mouth. Right. Well, they're not

00:38:08.920 --> 00:38:10.440
going to survive without like, everyone's going

00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:12.539
to survive without you. We're all going to be

00:38:12.539 --> 00:38:14.500
fine. Right. You know, we've been doing it for

00:38:14.500 --> 00:38:17.079
millions of years, but yeah, getting in check

00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:19.800
with just, what are you worried about? Yeah.

00:38:20.059 --> 00:38:24.039
There might be impact. But where we get the math

00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:27.960
wrong on that one is we will stop in our tracks

00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:30.800
contemplating the impact of the, like, what if

00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:33.059
I do set this boundary? Yeah. And then we won't

00:38:33.059 --> 00:38:36.119
actually do the other side of the equation, which

00:38:36.119 --> 00:38:37.599
is, well, what if I don't? What's the impact

00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:40.619
if I don't? Right. What's the impact on me? You

00:38:40.619 --> 00:38:42.719
know, the overwhelm, the resentment, the exhaustion.

00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:45.460
And then maybe it's the little passive aggressive

00:38:45.460 --> 00:38:47.539
jabs and snipes that show up in the relationship

00:38:47.539 --> 00:38:50.489
or the. resenting your own kids for having busy

00:38:50.489 --> 00:38:52.610
social lives and like or if you started a business

00:38:52.610 --> 00:38:54.389
with a best friend and now all of a sudden you

00:38:54.389 --> 00:38:56.610
like i was at a bakery a little while ago and

00:38:56.610 --> 00:38:58.329
just buying some bread and talking to the guy

00:38:58.329 --> 00:38:59.590
about the bakery and he's like yeah i started

00:38:59.590 --> 00:39:01.030
this with my best friend we don't talk anymore

00:39:01.030 --> 00:39:04.070
right it's like that's that's not good it happens

00:39:04.070 --> 00:39:07.250
it happens a lot so it's largely about choices

00:39:07.250 --> 00:39:10.110
and i think that's a theme in a lot of things

00:39:10.110 --> 00:39:12.449
we've talked about is just getting clear -headed

00:39:12.449 --> 00:39:16.190
about what are the dynamics we're talking about

00:39:16.190 --> 00:39:18.429
and what are the implications of choosing one

00:39:18.429 --> 00:39:20.130
way versus another and then making a conscious

00:39:20.130 --> 00:39:23.230
choice. Right. So we've identified a few places

00:39:23.230 --> 00:39:25.809
where boundaries might be needed. It's one thing

00:39:25.809 --> 00:39:28.429
to have it up here, but to actually put it down

00:39:28.429 --> 00:39:30.489
somewhere and look at it, have a list. Yeah.

00:39:30.610 --> 00:39:33.449
You know, a clear set of boundaries, write them

00:39:33.449 --> 00:39:36.210
down. Like you said, I don't pull all -nighters

00:39:36.210 --> 00:39:39.289
anymore. Right. I said, I'm not answering work

00:39:39.289 --> 00:39:42.050
emails on my days off. I don't stay in conversation

00:39:42.050 --> 00:39:44.469
when someone's yelling at me. Right. Carving

00:39:44.469 --> 00:39:46.610
out focus time at work. Carving out focus time

00:39:46.610 --> 00:39:49.570
at work. I'm not on Slack or email Tuesday mornings

00:39:49.570 --> 00:39:51.769
or Thursday afternoons. Yeah. And with that,

00:39:51.769 --> 00:39:54.530
like another clear space that you've created

00:39:54.530 --> 00:39:56.750
is there's the bat phone. Yeah, you can leave

00:39:56.750 --> 00:39:58.269
a personal boundary. If you think of a boundary

00:39:58.269 --> 00:40:00.929
as a wall, there can be a little door. There's

00:40:00.929 --> 00:40:03.289
a lock on it. There's like a passcode. But if

00:40:03.289 --> 00:40:04.849
you don't want to close everything off, you can

00:40:04.849 --> 00:40:07.429
leave a lifeline. There are emergencies. Some

00:40:07.429 --> 00:40:08.849
people have a rule, I don't take personal calls

00:40:08.849 --> 00:40:11.530
at work. Okay, but if a family member just got

00:40:11.530 --> 00:40:13.610
airlifted to a hospital. you're going to want

00:40:13.610 --> 00:40:15.570
to take that call. There can be exceptions. For

00:40:15.570 --> 00:40:18.289
sure. But that's different from open season,

00:40:18.329 --> 00:40:21.050
and I can never get any work done because I'm

00:40:21.050 --> 00:40:24.510
always answering the latest Slack ping, which

00:40:24.510 --> 00:40:29.130
is an epidemic right now. It's just so much distraction

00:40:29.130 --> 00:40:32.090
that deep focus work is totally destroyed by

00:40:32.090 --> 00:40:34.289
it. I'm not a fan of... There's a place for them,

00:40:34.349 --> 00:40:36.250
but largely I think they do more harm than good.

00:40:36.570 --> 00:40:38.469
It's frustrating to be constantly accessible

00:40:38.469 --> 00:40:40.610
and things are getting worse now to the point

00:40:40.610 --> 00:40:42.230
where people can see there's a little green circle

00:40:42.230 --> 00:40:45.170
by your name. They know you're online. They know

00:40:45.170 --> 00:40:47.150
when you're offline. They know when you've read

00:40:47.150 --> 00:40:49.409
the message that they've sent you. Right. Just

00:40:49.409 --> 00:40:52.909
all of those things are just huge detractors

00:40:52.909 --> 00:40:55.110
from actually being able to get work done. You

00:40:55.110 --> 00:40:57.190
can toggle it to busy, which people should do

00:40:57.190 --> 00:40:59.789
more often, I think, where it mutes the notifications

00:40:59.789 --> 00:41:02.110
and people see that you're busy. We invite some

00:41:02.110 --> 00:41:04.250
of these distractions or we at least allow them

00:41:04.250 --> 00:41:07.030
to become habitual. And then we complain that

00:41:07.030 --> 00:41:09.449
it frazzles our attention. Or setting a window,

00:41:09.570 --> 00:41:11.869
you know, like at these times I'm available and

00:41:11.869 --> 00:41:14.090
at these times I'm not. And just making that

00:41:14.090 --> 00:41:15.989
routine so that people know your schedule. And

00:41:15.989 --> 00:41:17.710
again, that's a boundary that you've created.

00:41:18.110 --> 00:41:19.849
Yeah, that's a thing that some people I've worked

00:41:19.849 --> 00:41:22.670
with have done to compensate or offset for the

00:41:22.670 --> 00:41:24.630
fact that they've carved out a couple of focus

00:41:24.630 --> 00:41:26.949
blocks is they'll have office hours. Yeah. Where

00:41:26.949 --> 00:41:29.409
it's Tuesday afternoons, my door is wide open.

00:41:29.510 --> 00:41:31.070
Right. Where I have nothing on the calendar and

00:41:31.070 --> 00:41:33.610
I'm just here to answer questions. Yeah. But

00:41:33.610 --> 00:41:36.940
Tuesday mornings, the door is. The lesson there

00:41:36.940 --> 00:41:39.219
is you can set your life up in a way that works

00:41:39.219 --> 00:41:43.260
better for everyone. It just requires taking

00:41:43.260 --> 00:41:45.440
stock of what that might look like. What does

00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:48.380
that mean? And coming up with some policies and

00:41:48.380 --> 00:41:50.980
some ground rules and then communicating them

00:41:50.980 --> 00:41:53.039
to people. And it's probably not a super long

00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:56.699
list. Like I don't have that many hard boundaries

00:41:56.699 --> 00:41:59.460
that I've had to articulate and enforce with

00:41:59.460 --> 00:42:01.280
people. There's a few, but I could probably count

00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:04.809
them on one hand, two at most. I have a lot of

00:42:04.809 --> 00:42:07.250
preferences perhaps, but a lot of that's flexible.

00:42:07.389 --> 00:42:09.389
There are a few things that are not. So your

00:42:09.389 --> 00:42:11.730
actual hard boundary list is probably not super

00:42:11.730 --> 00:42:14.630
long. Yeah. And it probably changes from relationship

00:42:14.630 --> 00:42:18.670
to relationship or from work to personal interactions.

00:42:19.510 --> 00:42:21.570
Yeah. And you may have boundaries in the background

00:42:21.570 --> 00:42:23.949
that you never need to articulate because in

00:42:23.949 --> 00:42:27.210
a particular setting, they're just never brushed

00:42:27.210 --> 00:42:31.090
up against. Yeah. Like your job might not be

00:42:31.090 --> 00:42:33.630
in the habit of... messaging you on weekends

00:42:33.630 --> 00:42:35.570
and expecting a response, in which case that

00:42:35.570 --> 00:42:37.130
can be a boundary, but you never had to voice

00:42:37.130 --> 00:42:39.570
it until it starts to happen. And then maybe

00:42:39.570 --> 00:42:42.150
you need to voice it. So they can be invisible

00:42:42.150 --> 00:42:45.230
until you need to make them visible. And then

00:42:45.230 --> 00:42:47.750
check your boundaries against your values. Boundaries

00:42:47.750 --> 00:42:50.710
are strongest when they're connected to those

00:42:50.710 --> 00:42:53.309
deeper values that you hold. A lot of the examples

00:42:53.309 --> 00:42:56.190
we gave earlier are maybe more practical or pragmatic,

00:42:56.409 --> 00:42:59.460
like work -life balance. And some strategies

00:42:59.460 --> 00:43:01.199
around that, like not taking calls on weekends,

00:43:01.340 --> 00:43:04.059
that's a pragmatic thing. Infidelity in a relationship

00:43:04.059 --> 00:43:06.719
is not just a practical matter. It's about trust.

00:43:06.780 --> 00:43:09.599
Right. And I need to be able to trust you. And

00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:12.179
this violates that. And so that's not okay. Yeah.

00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:14.159
Well, take your work -life balance thing that

00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:16.139
you just mentioned, right? If something you value

00:43:16.139 --> 00:43:19.119
is family time, then work -life balance is going

00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:21.119
to be incredibly important to you. And not taking

00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:23.679
emails when you're spending time with those loved

00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:26.719
ones is going to be crucial because... that's

00:43:26.719 --> 00:43:29.880
the core value yeah so it might feel like a pragmatic

00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:33.119
thing but if you dig deeper and you ask why a

00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:35.260
couple of times you might dig down into something

00:43:35.260 --> 00:43:36.940
that like oh actually this is brushing up against

00:43:36.940 --> 00:43:39.059
the core value that's why i'm finding it so frustrating

00:43:39.059 --> 00:43:43.500
right there was one that i've enforced different

00:43:43.500 --> 00:43:45.500
degrees of different stages in life but it's

00:43:45.500 --> 00:43:47.840
one that i liked and it was actually that i don't

00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:50.239
participate in gossip and i won't tolerate people

00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:54.460
gossiping around me and the reason for that was

00:43:54.840 --> 00:43:56.460
If you're gossiping about someone who's not there,

00:43:56.579 --> 00:44:00.019
one of the impacts of it is it can serve to kind

00:44:00.019 --> 00:44:02.079
of taint or poison my impression of a person.

00:44:02.219 --> 00:44:04.019
Right. And I don't want that. I don't want my

00:44:04.019 --> 00:44:07.139
impression of someone else to be tainted with

00:44:07.139 --> 00:44:09.679
dirt on them. They're not there to defend it.

00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:11.239
And if you're sharing something with me that

00:44:11.239 --> 00:44:13.760
you then don't want me to share with them, like

00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:16.420
don't let them know that I told you. Now I'm

00:44:16.420 --> 00:44:17.840
in a position where I have to hide something

00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:19.739
from this person and I didn't volunteer for that.

00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:21.360
I don't want to have things hidden from people

00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:24.579
in my life unless I absolutely have to. So don't

00:44:24.579 --> 00:44:27.340
put me in that position. And I just would gradually

00:44:27.340 --> 00:44:29.000
train people in my life. Hey, I really don't

00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:31.219
like gossip. Please don't, don't do that around

00:44:31.219 --> 00:44:33.099
me. That's not a judgment. I'm not saying you're

00:44:33.099 --> 00:44:35.880
a bad person for doing it. I'm saying not around

00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:38.300
me. Don't put that in my space because it implicates

00:44:38.300 --> 00:44:40.440
me in something. Yeah. And I'm not willing to

00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:43.090
do that. And people. learn that about me and

00:44:43.090 --> 00:44:45.389
stop gossiping around me so if we can make sure

00:44:45.389 --> 00:44:47.150
that things are brushing up against our values

00:44:47.150 --> 00:44:49.190
and that our boundaries are in relation to our

00:44:49.190 --> 00:44:53.170
values it makes them that much more easy to enforce

00:44:53.170 --> 00:44:56.489
so mindset stuff was where we started and then

00:44:56.489 --> 00:44:58.789
we kind of went off on on a bit of a bit of a

00:44:58.789 --> 00:45:00.929
detour there there's the how -to there's the

00:45:00.929 --> 00:45:03.929
the resistance that'll come up right and recognize

00:45:03.929 --> 00:45:08.050
your mind's tendency to rationalize why you don't

00:45:08.050 --> 00:45:09.730
have to do this or shouldn't do this most of

00:45:09.730 --> 00:45:12.440
that's just anxiety and fear and then a way you're

00:45:12.440 --> 00:45:14.500
talking yourself out of doing something. Some

00:45:14.500 --> 00:45:16.300
of it might be conditioned culturally or from

00:45:16.300 --> 00:45:18.940
your family of origin, like don't be selfish

00:45:18.940 --> 00:45:20.820
and always take care of other people, think of

00:45:20.820 --> 00:45:23.420
others first. A lot of those things are limitations

00:45:23.420 --> 00:45:27.099
we impose on ourself that go back to way earlier

00:45:27.099 --> 00:45:29.599
in life and might be due for an upgrade. Like

00:45:29.599 --> 00:45:32.820
as an adult, we all have boundaries, we all need

00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:35.940
them. And if you have leaky boundaries, your

00:45:35.940 --> 00:45:37.300
life's not going to work and you're going to

00:45:37.300 --> 00:45:39.210
resent people. And then you probably aren't even

00:45:39.210 --> 00:45:40.550
going to voice it. And so you'll have all this

00:45:40.550 --> 00:45:42.829
covert hidden resentment. Yeah. That's not healthy,

00:45:42.929 --> 00:45:45.090
not just psychologically, but even physically.

00:45:45.610 --> 00:45:48.929
So you have to give voice to this. And it's not

00:45:48.929 --> 00:45:51.090
about pushing people away. It's actually teaching

00:45:51.090 --> 00:45:53.050
them how to stay connected to you in a way that

00:45:53.050 --> 00:45:55.369
works for the relationship for you and therefore

00:45:55.369 --> 00:45:58.110
for the relationship. So you probably have an

00:45:58.110 --> 00:45:59.909
area in your life where you have some boundaries

00:45:59.909 --> 00:46:02.309
that have been clearly identified. We talked

00:46:02.309 --> 00:46:04.409
about connecting your boundaries to your values.

00:46:05.690 --> 00:46:08.570
Think about. one boundary that you have, what

00:46:08.570 --> 00:46:10.809
value does that connect with? Why is it important?

00:46:11.769 --> 00:46:13.889
Boundaries are about clarity, I think is one

00:46:13.889 --> 00:46:17.909
of the big takeaways, right? And once you've

00:46:17.909 --> 00:46:19.889
gotten clear on what works for you and what doesn't,

00:46:19.889 --> 00:46:23.130
where the boundary is, how do you have the conversation?

00:46:23.250 --> 00:46:24.630
How do we have the conversation? How do we enforce

00:46:24.630 --> 00:46:27.170
our boundaries? When we started, we started with,

00:46:27.289 --> 00:46:29.309
how do I enforce my boundaries without sounding

00:46:29.309 --> 00:46:31.969
like a jerk? Yeah, well, first you have to state

00:46:31.969 --> 00:46:34.550
them clearly, and then... And then there's the

00:46:34.550 --> 00:46:36.710
enforcement I would say comes after you've. After

00:46:36.710 --> 00:46:38.190
you know what they are. After you've. I can't

00:46:38.190 --> 00:46:39.750
enforce a boundary that I don't understand myself.

00:46:40.550 --> 00:46:43.269
Yeah. And you have to communicate it first. So

00:46:43.269 --> 00:46:45.130
like get clear on it for yourself and then you've

00:46:45.130 --> 00:46:47.889
got to communicate it to others. And then after

00:46:47.889 --> 00:46:49.989
that, there's enforcement because in a lot of

00:46:49.989 --> 00:46:52.550
cases, it's not going to be enough to just state

00:46:52.550 --> 00:46:55.489
it once. Yeah. We are creatures of habit and

00:46:55.489 --> 00:46:58.349
we have these patterns that we fall into. And

00:46:58.349 --> 00:47:00.050
so it's almost certainly going to be the case

00:47:00.050 --> 00:47:01.489
that even when you do communicate a boundary,

00:47:01.750 --> 00:47:04.960
someone will brush up against it. or cross it

00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:08.519
either inadvertently or anyone who has kids knows

00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:10.039
they will test your boundaries on purpose. Yeah.

00:47:10.039 --> 00:47:11.679
Some people will do that. Don't reach for the

00:47:11.679 --> 00:47:13.340
ice cream. And then the hand starts to slowly

00:47:13.340 --> 00:47:15.239
creep towards the ice cream and they're looking

00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:19.300
at you. It's like, no, no, no. And they're just

00:47:19.300 --> 00:47:21.139
like, they're testing the boundaries. So people

00:47:21.139 --> 00:47:23.960
will test you deliberately. Yes. And I knew it

00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:25.380
was serious when my mom was like, I'm going to

00:47:25.380 --> 00:47:28.739
count to three, one, two. I'd actually never

00:47:28.739 --> 00:47:31.320
found out what happens at three. Oh, well, after

00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:32.820
two is two and a half as far as I'm concerned.

00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:35.219
There's a two and a half. That's where I would

00:47:35.219 --> 00:47:36.880
get to two and a half. I don't know what comes

00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:39.199
after two and a half. Okay. So you never got

00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:41.119
to three either. I never got to three. I got

00:47:41.119 --> 00:47:42.800
to two and a half. Three was a bad place. We

00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:46.420
knew that. So boundaries will be tested. That's

00:47:46.420 --> 00:47:48.239
just a fact. Sometimes it's by accident. Oh,

00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:51.019
sorry. I forgot. You did say this matters. My

00:47:51.019 --> 00:47:53.400
bad. In which case, great. No worries. Remember

00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:55.739
next time. Sometimes it's a little more sinister

00:47:55.739 --> 00:47:57.980
where it's like, how serious are they about this?

00:47:58.019 --> 00:48:01.000
I'm going to push. yeah either way that's when

00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:03.340
you have to you have to defend the boundary you

00:48:03.340 --> 00:48:05.480
have to reinforce it but let's start with how

00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:08.000
to how do you communicate what it is in the first

00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:10.619
place one of the secrets here is going to be

00:48:10.619 --> 00:48:12.960
directness because that's going to create clarity

00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:15.440
one of the things that can happen with directness

00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:19.280
is it can come across in a kind manner and also

00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:23.559
directness can be abrasive and rough so yeah

00:48:23.559 --> 00:48:26.260
the best combination is going to be kind and

00:48:26.260 --> 00:48:28.920
direct I'm going to be clear about my boundary.

00:48:29.019 --> 00:48:30.519
I'm not going to sugarcoat it and I'm not going

00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:33.860
to apologize for it. Right. And then in terms

00:48:33.860 --> 00:48:36.159
of kindness, I'm going to acknowledge the relationship,

00:48:36.380 --> 00:48:38.980
the humanity the other person has. I'm not going

00:48:38.980 --> 00:48:41.599
to be accusatory. I'm not going to come in with

00:48:41.599 --> 00:48:44.360
judgment. I'm just simply stating, here's my

00:48:44.360 --> 00:48:48.239
boundary going forward. This is what I need in

00:48:48.239 --> 00:48:51.260
order to feel comfortable, safe. It comes down

00:48:51.260 --> 00:48:53.380
to respect, right? Like in order for me to feel

00:48:53.380 --> 00:48:56.300
respected, this is something that I need you

00:48:56.300 --> 00:49:00.489
to understand and not violate. Yeah. I think

00:49:00.489 --> 00:49:02.570
the combination of directness and kindness is

00:49:02.570 --> 00:49:04.469
the secret sauce for most of the things we talk

00:49:04.469 --> 00:49:06.809
about. Probably. And a very difficult thing to

00:49:06.809 --> 00:49:09.489
balance. It can be. Like with anything, you want

00:49:09.489 --> 00:49:11.610
to be in the right mental state where you're

00:49:11.610 --> 00:49:13.510
not amped up with anger or frustration in the

00:49:13.510 --> 00:49:15.849
moment when you communicate it. You want to get

00:49:15.849 --> 00:49:17.969
to a calm place. Like if someone does something

00:49:17.969 --> 00:49:20.110
that really upsets you in the moment, you may

00:49:20.110 --> 00:49:21.989
not want to have this conversation in that moment.

00:49:22.050 --> 00:49:24.820
You may want to cool down, come back to it. Because

00:49:24.820 --> 00:49:26.880
you want to be able to also be respectful towards

00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:29.619
them when you're having the conversation. And

00:49:29.619 --> 00:49:30.960
then you want to be kind of matter of fact about

00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:33.960
it and say like, for example, if it's a work

00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:37.239
thing, hey, I'm really trying to prioritize being

00:49:37.239 --> 00:49:39.059
present with my kids when I get home at night.

00:49:39.659 --> 00:49:42.380
And like when I'm at work, I give it 100%. You

00:49:42.380 --> 00:49:45.360
have all of me here from eight to six or whatever

00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:48.500
it is. Yeah. But my family time with my kids

00:49:48.500 --> 00:49:50.699
between like six and nine is really important.

00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:53.420
And so. I won't be checking my work messages

00:49:53.420 --> 00:49:56.460
or answering work calls after 6 p .m. moving

00:49:56.460 --> 00:49:58.199
forward. What I love about what you did right

00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:00.400
there is you made it personal. It was an I statement

00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:02.500
the whole time. There was never any accusation.

00:50:02.500 --> 00:50:05.500
It wasn't, hey, when you write me at 7 p .m.,

00:50:05.500 --> 00:50:07.360
you're screwing up my family time. Right. It

00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:10.019
was, my family time is very important to me.

00:50:10.400 --> 00:50:13.199
And because it's very important to me, I'm not

00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:15.559
going to be doing this. Right. Yeah, it was totally

00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:17.539
personal. It wasn't, you're a terrible, overbearing,

00:50:17.579 --> 00:50:20.440
domineering boss. Stop bothering me at home.

00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:22.179
I wasn't accusing you of doing anything wrong.

00:50:22.280 --> 00:50:25.900
I was actually explaining to you why this matters

00:50:25.900 --> 00:50:28.739
and in a way that you can probably relate to

00:50:28.739 --> 00:50:31.179
and just saying, here's what I'm going to be

00:50:31.179 --> 00:50:33.599
doing moving forward. I noticed that after these

00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:35.639
kinds of conversations where we're gossiping,

00:50:35.679 --> 00:50:39.980
I feel drained and I feel like there's an undue

00:50:39.980 --> 00:50:43.679
amount of. stress on me to keep this secret now.

00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:46.039
I feel dirty about it. Yeah. So going forward,

00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:49.599
I'm not going to be involved in the gossiping

00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:51.699
conversations. And if that's something that you

00:50:51.699 --> 00:50:53.980
need to do, it's not something that you can do

00:50:53.980 --> 00:50:58.579
with me. My sister had one years ago. So she's

00:50:58.579 --> 00:51:00.679
a huge music fan. She's got a collection of like

00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:03.300
3000 CDs and has always been passionate about

00:51:03.300 --> 00:51:07.780
music. And years ago, 2006, I think it was, she

00:51:07.780 --> 00:51:09.880
landed her dream job working for Universal Music.

00:51:10.409 --> 00:51:12.590
which was just over the moon happy about it.

00:51:13.030 --> 00:51:17.989
But several years later, she had to quit. She

00:51:17.989 --> 00:51:20.170
didn't have to, but she chose to because it was

00:51:20.170 --> 00:51:22.130
a shrinking industry with all of the downloading

00:51:22.130 --> 00:51:25.010
and a lot of the pirating, the Napster and the

00:51:25.010 --> 00:51:28.389
BitTorrent and that sort of thing before people

00:51:28.389 --> 00:51:32.369
were paying for streaming services. And so she

00:51:32.369 --> 00:51:35.409
saw firsthand the impact of people consuming

00:51:35.409 --> 00:51:39.230
pirated content. Because at that time, everyone

00:51:39.230 --> 00:51:41.050
was doing it. They were downloading movies or

00:51:41.050 --> 00:51:44.710
whatever. And so she set a boundary with her

00:51:44.710 --> 00:51:46.650
friends that, hey, I won't participate in this.

00:51:46.849 --> 00:51:48.309
She'd be up at a cottage with friends and they

00:51:48.309 --> 00:51:50.570
would download a movie and watch it for free.

00:51:50.610 --> 00:51:53.429
And she's like, if you do this, I'm not going

00:51:53.429 --> 00:51:55.449
to be in the room. So just know that it'll be

00:51:55.449 --> 00:51:57.269
you all watching this movie and I'm going to

00:51:57.269 --> 00:51:59.849
read a book in the bedroom. But I won't participate

00:51:59.849 --> 00:52:02.530
in this. And eventually people realized, okay,

00:52:02.550 --> 00:52:05.349
when Nikki's around, we're going to pay for the

00:52:05.349 --> 00:52:07.619
movie. Or we're... Not going to watch it. We'll

00:52:07.619 --> 00:52:09.239
watch something we actually have rights to. Right.

00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:14.079
So that was one. And, you know, she didn't necessarily

00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:15.860
do it in a way that was like, well, sometimes

00:52:15.860 --> 00:52:19.239
she did. She was yelly and judgy about it. But

00:52:19.239 --> 00:52:22.340
in her higher moments, it was just factual. It

00:52:22.340 --> 00:52:23.639
wasn't yelly and judgy. And it was like, hey,

00:52:23.659 --> 00:52:25.480
this doesn't work for me. Here's why. And that's

00:52:25.480 --> 00:52:27.480
probably when it was more effective. Yeah, for

00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:29.820
sure. And she could speak personally like, hey.

00:52:30.219 --> 00:52:32.539
And myself and people that I'm close to are personally

00:52:32.539 --> 00:52:34.300
affected by this, the artists themselves and

00:52:34.300 --> 00:52:35.800
everyone in the industry. And like, I had to

00:52:35.800 --> 00:52:37.980
leave my dream job because there was no future

00:52:37.980 --> 00:52:40.659
in it because of this. So I won't participate

00:52:40.659 --> 00:52:42.860
in it. And I would appreciate if you wouldn't

00:52:42.860 --> 00:52:44.260
either, but that's your choice to make. And I

00:52:44.260 --> 00:52:45.820
think to dig in on what you just said there,

00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:47.539
you know, at times it was yelling and judgy.

00:52:47.780 --> 00:52:49.679
That's going to happen when you've got boundaries,

00:52:49.820 --> 00:52:52.139
like you're not going to be perfect about establishing

00:52:52.139 --> 00:52:55.179
them all of the time. At some points, you might

00:52:55.179 --> 00:52:57.440
find yourself in that space of overwhelm or frustration.

00:52:58.030 --> 00:53:00.250
But what's great about this is the more you practice,

00:53:00.309 --> 00:53:02.309
if you were to speak to your sister, she would

00:53:02.309 --> 00:53:04.070
probably say like, yeah, that might've happened.

00:53:04.190 --> 00:53:08.090
But as I got more secure with stating that boundary,

00:53:08.349 --> 00:53:11.050
I got better at being clear about it in a way

00:53:11.050 --> 00:53:13.329
that wasn't, you know. Wasn't so angry. That

00:53:13.329 --> 00:53:15.070
wasn't so angry. And if someone pushed back at

00:53:15.070 --> 00:53:16.650
that point, maybe it becomes a different kind

00:53:16.650 --> 00:53:19.429
of conversation. I'm reminded of something. So

00:53:19.429 --> 00:53:22.190
all through my childhood growing up, my dad had

00:53:22.190 --> 00:53:23.889
his tools in the basement and there was always

00:53:23.889 --> 00:53:26.889
like, everything had a place. Okay. And so I

00:53:26.889 --> 00:53:28.650
could borrow a hammer or a screwdriver whenever

00:53:28.650 --> 00:53:31.150
I needed one. But if I didn't put it back where

00:53:31.150 --> 00:53:34.429
it belonged, he wouldn't find out until the next

00:53:34.429 --> 00:53:36.250
time he needed it. And then he's like, where's

00:53:36.250 --> 00:53:38.469
the hammer? You know, and he'd be upset. And

00:53:38.469 --> 00:53:40.650
his initial, like I got yelled at a bunch of

00:53:40.650 --> 00:53:42.269
times for not putting the tools back where they

00:53:42.269 --> 00:53:46.309
belonged. But there was one time more recently

00:53:46.309 --> 00:53:49.570
where he was just very calm. He calmly said,

00:53:49.710 --> 00:53:51.349
hey, I have no problem with you borrowing my

00:53:51.349 --> 00:53:54.429
tools, but. And inevitably when I need one of

00:53:54.429 --> 00:53:56.190
them, it's when I was trying to do something

00:53:56.190 --> 00:53:59.250
else and it broke. And so now I'm already frustrated

00:53:59.250 --> 00:54:01.590
and I go to reach for the screwdriver to fix

00:54:01.590 --> 00:54:03.469
the thing and it's not there. And now I'm doubly

00:54:03.469 --> 00:54:06.650
frustrated and can't actually fix the thing to

00:54:06.650 --> 00:54:08.329
get back to the thing I really wanted to do.

00:54:08.449 --> 00:54:10.050
And he just laid it out very calmly. And he's

00:54:10.050 --> 00:54:12.429
like, so please, if you're going to use my tools,

00:54:12.570 --> 00:54:13.869
it's important to me that you put them back.

00:54:14.110 --> 00:54:17.590
I was actually more scared at the calmness. I

00:54:17.590 --> 00:54:19.250
would almost have rather been yelled at because

00:54:19.250 --> 00:54:21.690
of the history. I knew what it took for him to

00:54:21.690 --> 00:54:24.730
be that calm. Yeah. I had a similar sort of thing

00:54:24.730 --> 00:54:27.730
where my best friend in high school had, he had

00:54:27.730 --> 00:54:30.469
a boundary for himself that like, I won't be

00:54:30.469 --> 00:54:32.889
hung up on during a conversation if it gets heated.

00:54:33.010 --> 00:54:35.309
So if we're talking on the phone and we get into

00:54:35.309 --> 00:54:37.489
an argument and you hang up on me mid sentence,

00:54:37.710 --> 00:54:40.289
I won't take phone calls with you anymore. Oh,

00:54:40.309 --> 00:54:42.949
okay. And I didn't know that. And I hung up on

00:54:42.949 --> 00:54:44.929
him in the heat of an argument at one point and

00:54:44.929 --> 00:54:47.110
then called him back, you know, a couple of minutes

00:54:47.110 --> 00:54:49.960
later. And he said like, I will pick up. this

00:54:49.960 --> 00:54:53.199
one time, if you hang up on me again, I will

00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:56.519
no longer have phone calls with you. And same

00:54:56.519 --> 00:54:58.800
sort of thing, like the matter of factness and

00:54:58.800 --> 00:55:02.260
the clarity around it and the lack of animosity

00:55:02.260 --> 00:55:04.659
and frustration, that told me like, oh no, this

00:55:04.659 --> 00:55:06.699
is serious business. This is serious. I did something,

00:55:06.760 --> 00:55:10.360
this was a few years ago in the height of, there

00:55:10.360 --> 00:55:12.519
was all kinds of conspiracy stuff on Facebook

00:55:12.519 --> 00:55:15.619
about, it might've been about the 2020 election,

00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:19.960
which, you know, you know my history with Dominion

00:55:19.960 --> 00:55:21.800
Voting Systems, the company that was being falsely

00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:24.960
accused of rigging the election. And there was

00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:28.360
a Facebook friend who was posting a bunch of

00:55:28.360 --> 00:55:31.940
this conspiratorial nonsense on my wall. And

00:55:31.940 --> 00:55:33.900
I started off by engaging with and debunking

00:55:33.900 --> 00:55:35.820
some of it. And then I realized that wasn't going

00:55:35.820 --> 00:55:37.219
anywhere. And eventually I was like, look, I

00:55:37.219 --> 00:55:39.260
have to ask you to stop posting this stuff on

00:55:39.260 --> 00:55:42.059
my feed. And they wouldn't stop. And then I just

00:55:42.059 --> 00:55:44.960
calmly explained, look, I've tried to reason

00:55:44.960 --> 00:55:47.019
with you. I've tried to provide the counter evidence.

00:55:47.579 --> 00:55:49.960
Then I asked you to stop posting this on my wall

00:55:49.960 --> 00:55:52.739
and you didn't honor that either. So I'm going

00:55:52.739 --> 00:55:54.800
to block you now. It's not out of malice. This

00:55:54.800 --> 00:55:58.139
isn't punishment. I just, I can't allow my Facebook

00:55:58.139 --> 00:56:02.159
profile to be used to signal boost this kind

00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:05.059
of nonsense. So I'm blocking you now. No hard

00:56:05.059 --> 00:56:06.980
feelings. I wish you well. And then I blocked

00:56:06.980 --> 00:56:09.440
her. And that was a good example, I think, of...

00:56:09.940 --> 00:56:12.280
Setting a boundary. Setting a boundary and enforcing

00:56:12.280 --> 00:56:14.199
it. Yeah, the block was the enforcer. Yeah, yeah.

00:56:14.300 --> 00:56:16.460
So you were clear about it. You communicated

00:56:16.460 --> 00:56:18.940
it. And then I never tested the hanging up thing

00:56:18.940 --> 00:56:20.880
again. We're still friends. Right. So shout out

00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:22.400
to Chris. Christopher. He doesn't like Chris.

00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:23.940
That's another boundary that he set. He doesn't

00:56:23.940 --> 00:56:26.000
like being called Chris. He prefers Christopher.

00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:29.460
One of the very few. I was only ever called Christopher

00:56:29.460 --> 00:56:32.300
when my mom was really mad. Right. Yeah. Christopher,

00:56:32.579 --> 00:56:35.559
David. Oh, geez. So what did we say about how

00:56:35.559 --> 00:56:37.059
to do this? You want to be direct. You want to

00:56:37.059 --> 00:56:39.659
be kind. You want to be clear. You don't make

00:56:39.659 --> 00:56:41.920
it personal. Speak in the first person, in the

00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:46.219
I, right? Like I am making this choice for my

00:56:46.219 --> 00:56:48.800
life because it meets a need that I have and

00:56:48.800 --> 00:56:52.320
you're informing them. And that's how you state

00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:53.780
the boundary. Now, how do you do that at work?

00:56:54.139 --> 00:56:57.300
There is a power dynamic at play where you're

00:56:57.300 --> 00:56:59.199
afraid of disappointing your boss, et cetera.

00:57:00.139 --> 00:57:02.059
It's a common question. How do I say no to this

00:57:02.059 --> 00:57:05.000
extra assignment? And you don't necessarily have

00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:07.940
to say no in that case, but you can say something

00:57:07.940 --> 00:57:10.869
like, okay, boss, I'm happy to take this on,

00:57:11.030 --> 00:57:13.829
but it's going to mean I'm going to have to deprioritize

00:57:13.829 --> 00:57:16.530
something else because I'm at capacity. So if

00:57:16.530 --> 00:57:18.650
this is important, like here are the other things

00:57:18.650 --> 00:57:22.190
I'm working on, help me sort out what to deprioritize

00:57:22.190 --> 00:57:24.409
to make room for this. Right. So you're not saying

00:57:24.409 --> 00:57:26.610
no, you're saying yes, but you're also acknowledging

00:57:26.610 --> 00:57:28.789
the reality of the fact that you have a finite

00:57:28.789 --> 00:57:32.530
capacity. And most bosses will be amenable to

00:57:32.530 --> 00:57:33.929
that. They'll either look at what else you're

00:57:33.929 --> 00:57:35.849
working on and realize that the thing they just

00:57:35.849 --> 00:57:37.949
asked you for is not that important. In which

00:57:37.949 --> 00:57:40.610
case they might say, oh, never mind. It's not

00:57:40.610 --> 00:57:42.789
urgent or I'll give it to someone else. Or if

00:57:42.789 --> 00:57:43.989
it is the most important thing, they'll say,

00:57:44.050 --> 00:57:46.429
yeah, great. Take this other thing off the list

00:57:46.429 --> 00:57:49.349
or bump that by a week and do this instead. And

00:57:49.349 --> 00:57:51.869
that's fine because we're talking about getting

00:57:51.869 --> 00:57:54.090
closer to reality here. And we've got some people

00:57:54.090 --> 00:57:55.969
right now who are screaming at us saying, well,

00:57:56.030 --> 00:57:57.829
what happens if they're not reasonable like that?

00:57:57.889 --> 00:57:59.789
And they say, no, you can do all of this. Yeah,

00:57:59.829 --> 00:58:01.289
that's a good question. You can say, well, look,

00:58:01.309 --> 00:58:03.469
the only way that I could get all of these things

00:58:03.469 --> 00:58:06.260
done. and still be on time with all of them as

00:58:06.260 --> 00:58:08.860
scheduled is if I were to work until 10 p .m.

00:58:08.860 --> 00:58:11.219
and on weekends, and I'm really not willing to

00:58:11.219 --> 00:58:15.119
do that. Now, what's the risk? The risk is if

00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:16.719
that's the expectation and you're not willing

00:58:16.719 --> 00:58:19.039
to meet it, like you might be afraid of losing

00:58:19.039 --> 00:58:21.639
your job or being denied a promotion. And those

00:58:21.639 --> 00:58:24.119
things might actually happen. We're back to choices,

00:58:24.380 --> 00:58:27.579
right? Is this really a boundary for you? Accept

00:58:27.579 --> 00:58:30.079
it, change it, or leave it. There may be consequences.

00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:32.059
Some people might not be okay with your boundaries,

00:58:32.199 --> 00:58:35.719
right? sometimes those people are in a position

00:58:35.719 --> 00:58:40.260
of some power over you. And are you willing to

00:58:40.260 --> 00:58:42.619
make that choice with eyes open? Yeah. Because

00:58:42.619 --> 00:58:44.119
there are certain jobs where the expectation

00:58:44.119 --> 00:58:46.199
is, yeah, you work 90 hours a week here. This

00:58:46.199 --> 00:58:48.239
is the culture. This is how we operate. It's

00:58:48.239 --> 00:58:49.880
an investment bank. We work that hard. Or it's

00:58:49.880 --> 00:58:52.219
a startup or whatever. This is where you have

00:58:52.219 --> 00:58:54.599
a real choice to make. You are either willing

00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:58.440
to operate according to that expectation, or

00:58:58.440 --> 00:59:01.300
if you're not, then it is time for you to look

00:59:01.300 --> 00:59:03.880
for another job. that's when it's a real boundary.

00:59:03.940 --> 00:59:05.139
If you're not willing to make that choice and

00:59:05.139 --> 00:59:08.139
you're just kind of stating it and hoping, and

00:59:08.139 --> 00:59:10.000
if the boss says, no, you're going to go along

00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:11.280
with it, then it was never a boundary to begin

00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:13.119
with and you were bluffing. And you don't want

00:59:13.119 --> 00:59:17.280
to bluff with this. It's not a tactic to try

00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:19.440
to trick someone into thinking it's a real boundary.

00:59:19.480 --> 00:59:22.760
It's a calm, clear choice. If you're not willing

00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:24.519
to walk away from it, it's probably not a real

00:59:24.519 --> 00:59:28.139
boundary. And then recognize that that's your

00:59:28.139 --> 00:59:31.409
choice as well. like if the boss says, no, I

00:59:31.409 --> 00:59:33.789
need you to do all of this and you say, okay,

00:59:33.869 --> 00:59:37.090
I'm going to acquiesce. There's a way in which

00:59:37.090 --> 00:59:38.789
you're choosing to do that. Now you can't just

00:59:38.789 --> 00:59:40.710
flip a switch and get a new job in some cases.

00:59:40.869 --> 00:59:43.469
And yeah, I mean, I get that with, with some

00:59:43.469 --> 00:59:45.449
clients too. And so what I'll tell them is, you

00:59:45.449 --> 00:59:47.170
know, do it until you don't have to do it anymore,

00:59:47.269 --> 00:59:50.610
but that's also a choice. Again, accept it, change

00:59:50.610 --> 00:59:52.789
it, leave it. Part of accepting it can be, I'm

00:59:52.789 --> 00:59:54.909
going to accept it for now. I don't have to like

00:59:54.909 --> 00:59:57.110
it. Right. And I'm going to actively try and

00:59:57.110 --> 00:59:59.800
change it in the process. There's always a choice.

00:59:59.860 --> 01:00:01.760
You just might not love any of the alternatives.

01:00:02.019 --> 01:00:05.000
Yeah. Because I have clients who are living and

01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:07.860
working in the US and they're on an H -1B work

01:00:07.860 --> 01:00:11.139
visa. And they may not like their job or they

01:00:11.139 --> 01:00:13.400
may not like the workload, but they really have

01:00:13.400 --> 01:00:15.659
limited flexibility because that visa requires

01:00:15.659 --> 01:00:19.199
a company to sponsor you. And it's not so easy

01:00:19.199 --> 01:00:21.559
to just get a new job. If you get a new job with

01:00:21.559 --> 01:00:23.119
another company, they also have to be willing

01:00:23.119 --> 01:00:24.659
to sponsor you through the whole visa process.

01:00:24.940 --> 01:00:27.139
So it imposes some limitations and an additional

01:00:27.139 --> 01:00:30.880
power dynamic. And I feel for people in that

01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:32.500
spot because in a lot of ways they're kind of

01:00:32.500 --> 01:00:35.000
trapped. If you lose your job, you've got to

01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:36.840
leave the country within 30 days or 60 days or

01:00:36.840 --> 01:00:38.579
something. So it's not just losing a job. It's

01:00:38.579 --> 01:00:40.480
you've got to uproot your family and move them

01:00:40.480 --> 01:00:44.099
back to your country of origin. So there are

01:00:44.099 --> 01:00:47.619
pretty severe consequences, pretty impactful

01:00:47.619 --> 01:00:51.239
life consequences if they choose to walk away.

01:00:52.260 --> 01:00:56.000
And it's still a choice. You may not love either

01:00:56.000 --> 01:00:58.440
of them. Like they might both suck, but. There's

01:00:58.440 --> 01:01:00.059
something that's empowering about remembering

01:01:00.059 --> 01:01:02.019
that you have a choice. You got a shit sandwich

01:01:02.019 --> 01:01:05.420
on either side. Yeah, exactly. Don't apologize

01:01:05.420 --> 01:01:06.900
for your boundaries when you set your boundaries.

01:01:07.039 --> 01:01:10.239
It's not, hey, listen, I'm really sorry. I hope

01:01:10.239 --> 01:01:13.440
this isn't an inconvenience, but would you mind

01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:18.519
if you just don't text your ex while we're together?

01:01:18.760 --> 01:01:21.480
Because I don't really like that. No, I need

01:01:21.480 --> 01:01:24.059
to be respected. I'm not willing to be in a relationship

01:01:24.059 --> 01:01:26.449
with someone who's still in a relationship. with

01:01:26.449 --> 01:01:29.329
their ex -partner. I'm not telling you you can't

01:01:29.329 --> 01:01:32.570
do it, but I'm telling you that feels disrespectful

01:01:32.570 --> 01:01:35.369
for me, so I'm going to remove myself from the

01:01:35.369 --> 01:01:38.469
situation. Very good point. Don't be mousy or

01:01:38.469 --> 01:01:40.989
wishy -washy or apologetic about it. Be calm

01:01:40.989 --> 01:01:44.869
and be firm. You're just expressing what works

01:01:44.869 --> 01:01:46.550
for you and what doesn't. It's just calm clarity.

01:01:47.150 --> 01:01:51.030
Don't apologize for having boundaries or for

01:01:51.030 --> 01:01:53.510
stating them. In fact, I would argue that...

01:01:53.800 --> 01:01:55.500
You have an obligation to be clear about what

01:01:55.500 --> 01:01:58.360
they are, to give the other person a chance to

01:01:58.360 --> 01:02:00.239
know what works for you and what doesn't, because

01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:02.920
they may not know. And again, it comes back to

01:02:02.920 --> 01:02:06.519
leading with kindness and choosing to be connected

01:02:06.519 --> 01:02:09.880
with a person. Yeah. And it can be awkward, in

01:02:09.880 --> 01:02:11.940
which case you can acknowledge that too. Like,

01:02:11.960 --> 01:02:13.380
hey, I want to talk to you about something. It

01:02:13.380 --> 01:02:16.639
might be a bit awkward, but it's important. So

01:02:16.639 --> 01:02:18.420
I think we need to talk about it. It's now a

01:02:18.420 --> 01:02:21.949
good time. You might fumble through it. But like

01:02:21.949 --> 01:02:23.690
all of these things, like any potentially awkward

01:02:23.690 --> 01:02:26.030
conversation, you get better with practice and

01:02:26.030 --> 01:02:27.289
they get easier. And it's probably not going

01:02:27.289 --> 01:02:29.690
to be as hard as you think it will. If you're

01:02:29.690 --> 01:02:32.449
in a good faith kind of relationship with someone

01:02:32.449 --> 01:02:35.050
where they're not trying to exploit you or take

01:02:35.050 --> 01:02:37.090
advantage of you deliberately, they'll want to

01:02:37.090 --> 01:02:38.590
know where your boundaries are and they'll want

01:02:38.590 --> 01:02:42.110
to honor them. Most of us don't want to infringe

01:02:42.110 --> 01:02:43.590
on other people's boundaries and are actually

01:02:43.590 --> 01:02:45.190
a little bit mortified if we find out that we

01:02:45.190 --> 01:02:48.400
have. I would say that's by and large the case.

01:02:48.480 --> 01:02:51.079
Yeah. If I find out that I've violated a boundary

01:02:51.079 --> 01:02:53.059
that I didn't know was there, I feel bad about

01:02:53.059 --> 01:02:55.699
it. Right. And I want to make it right or respected

01:02:55.699 --> 01:02:57.860
or whatever the case may be. The thought experiment

01:02:57.860 --> 01:02:59.519
here is just put yourself in the other person's

01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:01.940
shoes. Imagine you have a friend or a colleague,

01:03:02.119 --> 01:03:05.219
family member, whomever, and they calmly, respectfully

01:03:05.219 --> 01:03:08.139
express a boundary with you that you didn't know

01:03:08.139 --> 01:03:11.199
about that you've been violating. How would you

01:03:11.199 --> 01:03:13.480
feel? You might be a little embarrassed. Oh,

01:03:13.559 --> 01:03:15.889
I'm sorry. I didn't know. Yeah. But immediately

01:03:15.889 --> 01:03:18.210
you'd thank them for sharing that with you and

01:03:18.210 --> 01:03:19.989
you'd make every effort to honor that boundary.

01:03:20.170 --> 01:03:22.329
Yep. Acknowledge the awkwardness, acknowledge

01:03:22.329 --> 01:03:25.269
the fact that people might feel sheepish about

01:03:25.269 --> 01:03:28.769
it and like, hey, it's okay. Now we've established

01:03:28.769 --> 01:03:31.289
the boundary. We can move forward from here.

01:03:31.449 --> 01:03:33.409
Does this work for you? The art of the check

01:03:33.409 --> 01:03:35.269
-in, that's probably something. That's a big

01:03:35.269 --> 01:03:37.829
one. Yeah. Check in. How does that land? Give

01:03:37.829 --> 01:03:39.889
them a chance to speak. And people react all

01:03:39.889 --> 01:03:42.900
sorts of ways. Mostly they'll react. In the positive,

01:03:42.940 --> 01:03:44.699
supportive way. I would say by and large, that's

01:03:44.699 --> 01:03:46.019
probably what you're going to get, but there'll

01:03:46.019 --> 01:03:48.360
be people who react poorly too. So maybe it's

01:03:48.360 --> 01:03:49.980
worth talking about what do you do in that case?

01:03:50.239 --> 01:03:52.699
If someone reacts poorly? Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

01:03:52.699 --> 01:03:54.300
some people are not going to respect your boundaries

01:03:54.300 --> 01:03:55.920
and they're going to push back or they'll question

01:03:55.920 --> 01:03:57.920
it, especially if it's a new boundary. That's

01:03:57.920 --> 01:03:59.960
something that I have found. If I've just come

01:03:59.960 --> 01:04:01.679
up against something, I felt that frustration.

01:04:02.280 --> 01:04:05.460
I'm feeling that whatever it is, overwhelm, anger.

01:04:05.880 --> 01:04:08.880
And I go, okay, this is something that. obviously

01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:10.860
means something to me. What is it brushing up

01:04:10.860 --> 01:04:13.760
against? And I create a new boundary. Some people

01:04:13.760 --> 01:04:15.300
are going to say, well, I've never known you

01:04:15.300 --> 01:04:17.579
to be that way. Or maybe they'll get angry or

01:04:17.579 --> 01:04:19.460
they'll push back or they'll question it. Or

01:04:19.460 --> 01:04:21.719
they might just feel uncomfortable. You're not

01:04:21.719 --> 01:04:24.039
responsible for other people's reactions, right?

01:04:24.139 --> 01:04:27.300
You're responsible for being clear about your

01:04:27.300 --> 01:04:29.920
boundaries. But if someone pushes back, it's,

01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:32.079
you know, I get it. But this is something that

01:04:32.079 --> 01:04:33.539
I need to do for myself. You're not creating

01:04:33.539 --> 01:04:35.260
boundaries for other people. You're creating

01:04:35.260 --> 01:04:38.739
boundaries for you. That's right. And so there's

01:04:38.739 --> 01:04:41.500
a key nuance here too, which is you're stating

01:04:41.500 --> 01:04:43.940
a boundary and someone might say, well, that

01:04:43.940 --> 01:04:46.340
doesn't work for me. And they're basically asserting

01:04:46.340 --> 01:04:48.420
the right to keep doing the thing that violates

01:04:48.420 --> 01:04:50.820
your boundary. That's a choice they can make.

01:04:51.099 --> 01:04:53.239
Sure. So you're not trying to argue with them

01:04:53.239 --> 01:04:55.539
to try to convince them to behave differently.

01:04:56.380 --> 01:04:59.219
You're letting them know that this is behavior

01:04:59.219 --> 01:05:00.800
that I will accept and this is behavior that

01:05:00.800 --> 01:05:03.440
I won't. So you can just respond with, hey, I

01:05:03.440 --> 01:05:05.760
hear you. I get it. That's your choice to make.

01:05:06.460 --> 01:05:08.760
but this is something I need for myself. Right.

01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:11.099
Bring it back to my phone call with Christopher

01:05:11.099 --> 01:05:12.880
when I hung up on him. Like, it's just a little

01:05:12.880 --> 01:05:15.199
thing. Yeah. He didn't tell me you can never

01:05:15.199 --> 01:05:17.699
hang up on me again. He said, if you choose to

01:05:17.699 --> 01:05:20.780
hang up on me again, I'm just not going to have

01:05:20.780 --> 01:05:22.719
phone calls with you anymore. Right. It didn't

01:05:22.719 --> 01:05:25.980
take away my agency. It was a very clear communication

01:05:25.980 --> 01:05:29.900
of if X, then Y. You're going to make your choice

01:05:29.900 --> 01:05:32.960
and I'm going to make mine. My sister, back to

01:05:32.960 --> 01:05:35.679
the lateness thing, she has a friend who is still,

01:05:36.319 --> 01:05:38.659
not just late, but flaky. So they'll make plans

01:05:38.659 --> 01:05:40.760
and a friend will cancel fairly regularly. And

01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:42.460
she set something up where it was like, look,

01:05:42.559 --> 01:05:45.280
it doesn't work for me to carve out an evening

01:05:45.280 --> 01:05:47.619
or a block of time and then worry that it might

01:05:47.619 --> 01:05:49.800
change last minute. And now I can't make new

01:05:49.800 --> 01:05:53.440
plans. So new rule, we can only make last minute

01:05:53.440 --> 01:05:55.199
plans where you're available right then and there.

01:05:55.420 --> 01:05:56.679
It's like, hey, do you want to meet for lunch

01:05:56.679 --> 01:06:00.219
right now? Okay, great. And then, and only in

01:06:00.219 --> 01:06:02.079
my neighborhood. So that if you still don't show

01:06:02.079 --> 01:06:04.340
up, it's a five minute walk back home. So it

01:06:04.340 --> 01:06:06.989
was just carving out. And it was not in order

01:06:06.989 --> 01:06:08.789
to punish the other person. It was in order to

01:06:08.789 --> 01:06:11.070
maintain... It was for her to respect her own

01:06:11.070 --> 01:06:14.010
time and... And in order to maintain a workable

01:06:14.010 --> 01:06:16.010
relationship. It's like, I still want you in

01:06:16.010 --> 01:06:18.550
my life. Yeah. But this pattern isn't working.

01:06:18.869 --> 01:06:21.449
Right. Here's something that might. If it's last

01:06:21.449 --> 01:06:23.949
minute and it's local, then it minimizes the

01:06:23.949 --> 01:06:26.090
impact on me and I still get to see you. But

01:06:26.090 --> 01:06:28.110
I'm no longer willing to plan weeks or months

01:06:28.110 --> 01:06:29.670
ahead because I just don't trust that you'll

01:06:29.670 --> 01:06:32.670
show up. Yeah. So a few examples that you can

01:06:32.670 --> 01:06:35.130
adapt to your own life right now. Phrases that

01:06:35.130 --> 01:06:37.889
you can use to enforce some boundaries if someone

01:06:37.889 --> 01:06:41.329
is pushing back. I appreciate that you're digging

01:06:41.329 --> 01:06:43.409
in on that. I'm not interested in discussing

01:06:43.409 --> 01:06:45.710
it. This is not a conversation that I'm going

01:06:45.710 --> 01:06:47.590
to continue. Right. Or I hear that you're upset

01:06:47.590 --> 01:06:49.489
and I understand, but I'm not going to continue

01:06:49.489 --> 01:06:52.389
the conversation if it's disrespectful. Right.

01:06:53.070 --> 01:06:56.070
I appreciate the invitation. I'm going to politely

01:06:56.070 --> 01:06:59.809
decline. Or I'm going to pass on this one. I'll

01:06:59.809 --> 01:07:02.369
take a rain check. Or I'd rather set my hair

01:07:02.369 --> 01:07:04.900
on fire. That's a good one. But thanks for asking.

01:07:06.260 --> 01:07:08.460
That one might not land quite as well as the

01:07:08.460 --> 01:07:09.800
others, but you could try it. You could try it.

01:07:09.800 --> 01:07:13.219
It depends. And the delivery matters. Practice

01:07:13.219 --> 01:07:17.260
for the week. Express one boundary with clarity.

01:07:17.340 --> 01:07:20.280
Out loud. Out loud to yourself and notice how

01:07:20.280 --> 01:07:23.320
you feel. Remind yourself that setting boundaries

01:07:23.320 --> 01:07:25.940
is not a mean practice. It's not a mean spirited

01:07:25.940 --> 01:07:29.880
thing. It's not a punishment. You're being clear.

01:07:30.099 --> 01:07:33.159
You're being honest. And you're giving someone

01:07:33.719 --> 01:07:37.860
a clear map as to how to respect you. Right.

01:07:37.940 --> 01:07:39.400
Now you said express it out loud to yourself.

01:07:40.360 --> 01:07:44.099
Yep. Next level is express it out loud to the

01:07:44.099 --> 01:07:46.659
other person or people in your life. So now it's

01:07:46.659 --> 01:07:49.239
not just to yourself, it's out there in the world,

01:07:49.320 --> 01:07:51.340
right? You've carved out, here's the line in

01:07:51.340 --> 01:07:54.840
the sand. Last piece, we've talked about stating

01:07:54.840 --> 01:07:57.400
boundaries clearly. Yep. What do you do to reinforce

01:07:57.400 --> 01:07:59.789
them over time? It's usually not a one and done

01:07:59.789 --> 01:08:01.329
thing where you just say it once and then everything

01:08:01.329 --> 01:08:03.630
changes. What happens when mom has to count all

01:08:03.630 --> 01:08:05.670
the way to three? So what happens when we have

01:08:05.670 --> 01:08:08.869
to reinforce our boundaries? You might have to

01:08:08.869 --> 01:08:10.969
repeat things. You probably will. You're probably

01:08:10.969 --> 01:08:12.610
going to have to. I mean, Chris spoke to that

01:08:12.610 --> 01:08:14.570
earlier. Not because people are trying to be

01:08:14.570 --> 01:08:16.750
disrespectful, but because you've created a new

01:08:16.750 --> 01:08:18.449
dynamic for them that they weren't aware of.

01:08:18.569 --> 01:08:20.430
Yeah. You're trying to change a longstanding

01:08:20.430 --> 01:08:23.439
pattern that exists. Or people are adjusting

01:08:23.439 --> 01:08:25.939
to the new normal. People are adjusting to a

01:08:25.939 --> 01:08:28.420
new sense of clarity around what it means to

01:08:28.420 --> 01:08:31.220
be respectful, right? That doesn't mean that

01:08:31.220 --> 01:08:33.500
your boundary failed. It means that you're teaching

01:08:33.500 --> 01:08:36.079
people how to treat you. So just normalize it,

01:08:36.119 --> 01:08:38.720
right? Hey, just a reminder, I don't like to

01:08:38.720 --> 01:08:41.239
gossip. So if you're going to do that, please

01:08:41.239 --> 01:08:43.979
don't do it around me. Hey, we all know that

01:08:43.979 --> 01:08:46.779
I don't listen to music that is pirated. We all

01:08:46.779 --> 01:08:48.579
know that I don't watch movies that are pirated.

01:08:49.199 --> 01:08:51.140
You know, either throw that iPod out the window

01:08:51.140 --> 01:08:53.720
or I'm not going on the car trip. Right. Whatever

01:08:53.720 --> 01:08:56.720
it is. We're being consistent. Some gentle reminders

01:08:56.720 --> 01:08:59.279
over time and give it, it's going to take a few

01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:02.380
repetitions for people to remember. You're just

01:09:02.380 --> 01:09:04.979
training people into a new pattern of how to

01:09:04.979 --> 01:09:06.739
relate to you. And sometimes people have a negative

01:09:06.739 --> 01:09:08.760
connotation around this idea of training people.

01:09:08.920 --> 01:09:11.779
Right. Like, oh, it's like training a dog. I

01:09:11.779 --> 01:09:13.800
say, yeah, it is like that. And that's not a

01:09:13.800 --> 01:09:15.619
bad thing. We're constantly training people how

01:09:15.619 --> 01:09:18.729
to relate to us. we're doing it consciously or

01:09:18.729 --> 01:09:21.289
we're doing it unconsciously. Yeah. Right? The

01:09:21.289 --> 01:09:22.810
alternative isn't that you're not training people.

01:09:22.909 --> 01:09:24.710
No. The alternative is you're training people,

01:09:24.810 --> 01:09:28.170
but you're unconscious about it. Yeah. So there's

01:09:28.170 --> 01:09:29.770
no getting around it. We train people how to

01:09:29.770 --> 01:09:31.770
relate to us. Yeah. It's just better to do it

01:09:31.770 --> 01:09:34.170
consciously and to know what behaviors you're

01:09:34.170 --> 01:09:37.109
training into them or out of them and to be explicit

01:09:37.109 --> 01:09:39.449
about it. So you can disabuse yourself of the

01:09:39.449 --> 01:09:40.949
notion that there's something wrong with training

01:09:40.949 --> 01:09:43.430
people how to treat you. It's unavoidable. Yeah.

01:09:43.489 --> 01:09:45.789
We're just advocating doing it consciously and

01:09:45.789 --> 01:09:48.149
mindfully. You're teaching people how to respect

01:09:48.149 --> 01:09:49.930
you. You're teaching people what your boundaries

01:09:49.930 --> 01:09:52.310
are. That's a good way of putting it. Yeah. Totally.

01:09:52.869 --> 01:09:56.109
So gentle but firm reminders. And that'll work

01:09:56.109 --> 01:09:59.670
in most cases. Now, sometimes people might push

01:09:59.670 --> 01:10:02.050
back a little more actively or aggressively.

01:10:02.689 --> 01:10:04.449
Like, oh, well, you used to be fine with this.

01:10:04.529 --> 01:10:06.590
Or you've changed, man. Or like. I love that

01:10:06.590 --> 01:10:08.970
one. You've changed. You've changed. Yeah. And

01:10:08.970 --> 01:10:11.909
sometimes this is more serious. Like, I can think

01:10:11.909 --> 01:10:14.000
of an example. Somebody. Might have friends they

01:10:14.000 --> 01:10:16.180
used to go and drink and party with, and now

01:10:16.180 --> 01:10:18.380
they've decided to go sober. I'm not drinking

01:10:18.380 --> 01:10:20.039
and partying like that anymore. And then their

01:10:20.039 --> 01:10:21.880
friends might be cajoling them. Oh, come on.

01:10:22.039 --> 01:10:25.039
You used to be fun. What happened to you? Yeah,

01:10:25.119 --> 01:10:27.960
I used to do that, and I have realized that I

01:10:27.960 --> 01:10:29.699
need something different for my life, and so

01:10:29.699 --> 01:10:31.800
I've made this choice. This is important to me,

01:10:31.840 --> 01:10:34.020
and I'd like you to respect it. You might get

01:10:34.020 --> 01:10:36.340
pressure, and that's when you'll have to... Well,

01:10:36.340 --> 01:10:37.920
that's when you get to test whether this is an

01:10:37.920 --> 01:10:39.880
actual boundary or not. If you've got people

01:10:39.880 --> 01:10:41.619
in your life... where you've made it clear that

01:10:41.619 --> 01:10:44.319
this is important to you and it's a change you're

01:10:44.319 --> 01:10:48.760
making for your life for the better and they're

01:10:48.760 --> 01:10:51.699
continuing to test it, it's worthwhile asking

01:10:51.699 --> 01:10:53.380
yourself, are these people you want to continue

01:10:53.380 --> 01:10:55.380
to have in your life? If you're going to keep

01:10:55.380 --> 01:10:57.100
those people in your life, what's the cost to

01:10:57.100 --> 01:10:59.399
you? Yeah. If you're going to shut this boundary

01:10:59.399 --> 01:11:02.300
down that you've created for yourself because

01:11:02.300 --> 01:11:05.000
someone got uncomfortable with it or they challenged

01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:07.460
you on it, what is that going to cost you? Or

01:11:07.460 --> 01:11:09.739
even if you maintain the boundary. Do you want

01:11:09.739 --> 01:11:11.779
people in your life who know that this is important

01:11:11.779 --> 01:11:14.239
and are still consciously choosing to try to

01:11:14.239 --> 01:11:16.239
talk you out of it? Yeah. Like say you've given

01:11:16.239 --> 01:11:19.039
up alcohol because you've determined that that's

01:11:19.039 --> 01:11:21.500
what you need for your life. You want to go sober

01:11:21.500 --> 01:11:23.340
and you've got friends that are trying to tempt

01:11:23.340 --> 01:11:26.340
you into going partying again. I try to surround

01:11:26.340 --> 01:11:28.060
myself with people who are supportive. And if

01:11:28.060 --> 01:11:29.859
I say I'm working on this for me and it's important,

01:11:30.079 --> 01:11:32.520
the people around me would be like, 100%, we're

01:11:32.520 --> 01:11:34.699
on board. How can we be supportive? How can we

01:11:34.699 --> 01:11:36.500
help? Like, is it okay if we drink around you?

01:11:36.539 --> 01:11:38.720
Right? Right. I haven't made that choice for

01:11:38.720 --> 01:11:41.319
myself, but if I did, they would naturally want

01:11:41.319 --> 01:11:42.859
to support me. There would be a groundswell.

01:11:42.880 --> 01:11:44.579
You would have people lifting you up. Totally.

01:11:44.600 --> 01:11:46.239
You have cheerleaders. You have people in your

01:11:46.239 --> 01:11:47.819
corner. Yeah. And if there were people who were

01:11:47.819 --> 01:11:50.640
trying to talk me out of a decision I've made

01:11:50.640 --> 01:11:52.939
for myself and expressed that it was important

01:11:52.939 --> 01:11:55.859
to me, that's somebody I would want to distance

01:11:55.859 --> 01:11:59.199
myself from. Sure. There are people who are probably

01:11:59.199 --> 01:12:01.220
listening to this right now who might not have

01:12:01.220 --> 01:12:03.739
that same sense of self or that might not be

01:12:03.739 --> 01:12:05.659
their character and they might feel guilty. What

01:12:05.659 --> 01:12:07.039
if it's a family member? What if it's like a

01:12:07.039 --> 01:12:08.979
parent? Yeah. So what do we do? How do we manage

01:12:08.979 --> 01:12:11.760
that? Like if I'm uncomfortable that it's making

01:12:11.760 --> 01:12:13.960
someone else feel uncomfortable, how do I manage

01:12:13.960 --> 01:12:15.880
my own sense of guilt? Other people's discomfort

01:12:15.880 --> 01:12:19.140
is their business, not yours. We said that earlier

01:12:19.140 --> 01:12:20.899
when we talked about pushback, right? So you

01:12:20.899 --> 01:12:23.319
are trying to carve out the life that you want

01:12:23.319 --> 01:12:25.920
for yourself. Your needs are valid and your boundaries

01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:28.500
are valid. And their feelings are valid too.

01:12:28.600 --> 01:12:32.720
These things can coexist. It's not your job to

01:12:32.720 --> 01:12:37.119
sacrifice or compromise your needs for the sake

01:12:37.119 --> 01:12:39.699
of someone else's feelings. Right. Because it's

01:12:39.699 --> 01:12:42.640
a game you can never win. Eight billion people

01:12:42.640 --> 01:12:45.300
in the world. Maybe you've got a thousand in

01:12:45.300 --> 01:12:47.100
your life that you interact with on a semi -regular

01:12:47.100 --> 01:12:50.359
basis. You can't go through life compromising

01:12:50.359 --> 01:12:52.979
your needs to account for other people's feelings.

01:12:54.359 --> 01:12:56.399
it would be unreasonable for you to expect them

01:12:56.399 --> 01:12:59.859
to constantly be catering to yours. We're responsible

01:12:59.859 --> 01:13:02.079
for our own feelings. That's why you're carving

01:13:02.079 --> 01:13:04.560
out a boundary to protect your feelings. They

01:13:04.560 --> 01:13:06.520
get to make similar choices for theirs. And so

01:13:06.520 --> 01:13:08.479
be willing to be with someone else's discomfort.

01:13:08.859 --> 01:13:10.979
That can be a huge obstacle for people, but it's

01:13:10.979 --> 01:13:13.460
a huge step forward in your own growth is be

01:13:13.460 --> 01:13:16.720
willing to sit with someone else's disapproval

01:13:16.720 --> 01:13:20.579
or discomfort or pushback or anger or whatever

01:13:20.579 --> 01:13:24.119
it is. If this really matters to you. Let them

01:13:24.119 --> 01:13:26.699
have their reaction. They will either come to

01:13:26.699 --> 01:13:28.979
respect your boundary in a way that maybe there's

01:13:28.979 --> 01:13:30.260
a conversation to be had. Maybe there's even

01:13:30.260 --> 01:13:32.920
some negotiation about it. But they'll either

01:13:32.920 --> 01:13:36.000
engage in a respectful way in good faith. And

01:13:36.000 --> 01:13:37.779
ultimately, you'll come to a place that feels

01:13:37.779 --> 01:13:40.779
mutually workable and supportive or not. And

01:13:40.779 --> 01:13:44.279
then, you know, the or not is the ultimate enforcement

01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:46.960
of the boundary, which is the you've done all

01:13:46.960 --> 01:13:49.100
the work to try to change it. At the end of the

01:13:49.100 --> 01:13:50.859
day, if none of that works, then you're left

01:13:50.859 --> 01:13:55.409
with the accept it or leave it. So, check in

01:13:55.409 --> 01:13:58.210
here. What's a boundary that you've set that

01:13:58.210 --> 01:14:01.390
you might be struggling to reinforce? Is there

01:14:01.390 --> 01:14:03.470
something or someone that's pulling you back

01:14:03.470 --> 01:14:06.449
into old habits? And what would it look like

01:14:06.449 --> 01:14:09.970
if you were to hold that boundary in a firm but

01:14:09.970 --> 01:14:12.989
gentle stance starting this week? What would

01:14:12.989 --> 01:14:15.050
it feel like? How would you feel about yourself

01:14:15.050 --> 01:14:18.489
to see yourself as someone who does that? Who

01:14:18.489 --> 01:14:22.710
holds a firm but gentle... line with someone.

01:14:22.829 --> 01:14:25.670
It's super empowering. Yeah. A good way to look

01:14:25.670 --> 01:14:28.470
at this too is not through the lens of self -improvement,

01:14:28.470 --> 01:14:30.890
but just being honest with people. You're not

01:14:30.890 --> 01:14:32.609
trying to get better. You're not trying to be

01:14:32.609 --> 01:14:34.970
a better version of yourself. You're trying to

01:14:34.970 --> 01:14:36.670
be a more honest version of yourself. Right.

01:14:36.930 --> 01:14:38.350
That's a really good point because there are

01:14:38.350 --> 01:14:40.829
things that already either work or don't work

01:14:40.829 --> 01:14:43.310
for you. This isn't about creating something

01:14:43.310 --> 01:14:45.750
that doesn't already exist. It's just about accurately

01:14:45.750 --> 01:14:49.359
describing what's already true. If a thing doesn't

01:14:49.359 --> 01:14:51.220
work for you, it already doesn't work. You're

01:14:51.220 --> 01:14:53.140
just being honest about it with yourself and

01:14:53.140 --> 01:14:56.560
with others and giving everyone a chance to engage

01:14:56.560 --> 01:15:00.060
in a way that works. One of the themes you may

01:15:00.060 --> 01:15:02.060
have picked up on through the conversation, or

01:15:02.060 --> 01:15:04.020
maybe not, so we'll make it explicit, is this

01:15:04.020 --> 01:15:07.340
isn't just about a communication tool or strategy.

01:15:08.039 --> 01:15:12.180
It's really about self -respect. Yeah. It's about

01:15:12.180 --> 01:15:16.439
respecting yourself. teaching others how to relate

01:15:16.439 --> 01:15:18.119
to you in a way that feels respectful to you.

01:15:18.800 --> 01:15:22.039
That's worth doing. And in the worst case, it's

01:15:22.039 --> 01:15:23.699
about filtering people out who aren't willing

01:15:23.699 --> 01:15:26.680
to treat you in a way that you've defined as

01:15:26.680 --> 01:15:29.100
respectful. And if people are constantly trying

01:15:29.100 --> 01:15:31.819
to challenge that, then you may have to ask the

01:15:31.819 --> 01:15:34.180
tougher question. Are these relationships you

01:15:34.180 --> 01:15:37.359
want to continue participating in? So a couple

01:15:37.359 --> 01:15:39.920
of questions to finish this off. Where in your

01:15:39.920 --> 01:15:41.880
life are you feeling stretched too thin where

01:15:41.880 --> 01:15:45.270
you might need a boundary? Is there an area in

01:15:45.270 --> 01:15:47.789
your life where you know you need to set a boundary

01:15:47.789 --> 01:15:51.970
and you have not yet done that? Maybe just name

01:15:51.970 --> 01:15:54.489
it. You don't need to take action today. If you're

01:15:54.489 --> 01:15:56.270
feeling confident and comfortable enough, you

01:15:56.270 --> 01:15:58.430
could take action today, but just naming it as

01:15:58.430 --> 01:16:01.289
the first step, creating that awareness. And

01:16:01.289 --> 01:16:04.130
what could you put in place? What shift could

01:16:04.130 --> 01:16:06.229
you make in your life? And what would it feel

01:16:06.229 --> 01:16:09.409
like if you stopped compromising yourself for

01:16:09.409 --> 01:16:11.630
the sake of not rocking the boat or keeping the

01:16:11.630 --> 01:16:15.439
peace with others? So set a boundary if you need

01:16:15.439 --> 01:16:19.420
to. And hop online and buy yourself a cattle

01:16:19.420 --> 01:16:23.859
prod. There you go. As always, we hope this was

01:16:23.859 --> 01:16:25.939
useful. If you liked it, please like, subscribe,

01:16:26.279 --> 01:16:28.659
forward it to friends. That helps us a lot. And

01:16:28.659 --> 01:16:30.100
as always, thanks for tuning in.