How to Give Feedback (Without Making it Weird)

WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.060
Here we go. The compliment sandwich. Everyone

00:00:02.060 --> 00:00:03.500
knows the compliment sandwich. That's what we're

00:00:03.500 --> 00:00:06.259
doing, right? We are not doing the feedback sandwich.

00:00:06.360 --> 00:00:08.460
We're not doing this. No, we're not doing the...

00:00:08.460 --> 00:00:10.800
I thought that's the only one I know. Right.

00:00:10.939 --> 00:00:12.980
Say something positive, then say something negative,

00:00:13.099 --> 00:00:15.179
and then say something positive again. I call

00:00:15.179 --> 00:00:22.820
that the shit sandwich. Welcome to Making Yourself

00:00:22.820 --> 00:00:25.579
Clear. I'm Chris. I'm Patrick. And today we're

00:00:25.579 --> 00:00:27.699
going to talk about how to give feedback without

00:00:27.699 --> 00:00:31.269
making it weird. So feedback is one of the most

00:00:31.269 --> 00:00:33.649
powerful things in communication. A lot of people

00:00:33.649 --> 00:00:36.090
avoid doing it. A lot of people get it wrong

00:00:36.090 --> 00:00:37.829
when they try to do it. So today we're going

00:00:37.829 --> 00:00:40.670
to break down what makes feedback work, what

00:00:40.670 --> 00:00:43.509
makes it flop, how to deliver it in a way that's

00:00:43.509 --> 00:00:45.350
going to build trust instead of building tension

00:00:45.350 --> 00:00:47.329
between you and the person you're giving feedback

00:00:47.329 --> 00:00:49.990
to. When delivered properly, feedback helps people

00:00:49.990 --> 00:00:52.450
grow, right? It's supposed to build trust, not

00:00:52.450 --> 00:00:54.729
tension, and it's not supposed to shut people

00:00:54.729 --> 00:00:57.570
down. So we want you to walk away with a clearer

00:00:57.570 --> 00:01:00.479
mindset on how to deliver feedback. Tools that

00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:01.820
you can use. And we're also going to provide

00:01:01.820 --> 00:01:04.079
a specific framework that you can use as well

00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:06.939
and some examples. So whether you're at work,

00:01:06.980 --> 00:01:09.799
whether this is a personal relationship or you're

00:01:09.799 --> 00:01:11.480
navigating a tough conversation with someone

00:01:11.480 --> 00:01:14.920
you love or with friends. Yeah. So why don't

00:01:14.920 --> 00:01:18.739
we start with why feedback matters? Why is why

00:01:18.739 --> 00:01:21.319
is it important for us to give feedback? And

00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:23.680
if I think about it like this is how we grow.

00:01:24.260 --> 00:01:27.980
This is how we discover the gap. Between how

00:01:27.980 --> 00:01:30.560
we see ourselves and how we think we are showing

00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:33.019
up for other people and how they actually experience

00:01:33.019 --> 00:01:35.680
us. And sometimes those things are aligned. Sometimes

00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:38.099
they're not. But without feedback, we we would

00:01:38.099 --> 00:01:40.579
have no way of knowing. And so feedback is how

00:01:40.579 --> 00:01:43.400
we get better. It's how we learn. It's how we

00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:46.239
improve. Yeah. Think about some specific times,

00:01:46.340 --> 00:01:48.040
maybe when you've received feedback and it's

00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:50.140
really worked or maybe you have received some

00:01:50.140 --> 00:01:51.959
feedback that really didn't work for you. Right.

00:01:52.060 --> 00:01:55.260
So in work, it can help create better teams.

00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:58.000
But if it's delivered improperly, it can really

00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:00.840
fracture things. It can divide people and it

00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:03.959
can reduce rapport that we have. In relationships,

00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:06.819
it can definitely help to build trust. It can

00:02:06.819 --> 00:02:10.139
help to build intimacy. If there's an issue that

00:02:10.139 --> 00:02:12.599
you're holding on to, it can help to reduce resentment

00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:15.219
that you might have for the person that you love.

00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:17.240
And I mean, if you've got resentment in your

00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:19.599
relationship, that's poison in the well, right?

00:02:19.930 --> 00:02:21.689
I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that experience

00:02:21.689 --> 00:02:24.310
where your partner in a relationship or a friendship

00:02:24.310 --> 00:02:26.629
or someone at work does something that bugs you

00:02:26.629 --> 00:02:29.229
and you hold back on sharing it with them because

00:02:29.229 --> 00:02:30.710
you don't want to break rapport. You don't want

00:02:30.710 --> 00:02:32.949
to have that awkward, uncomfortable conversation.

00:02:33.270 --> 00:02:35.270
So you just kind of sit on it, hoping it'll go

00:02:35.270 --> 00:02:38.289
away. And when it doesn't go away, it just sort

00:02:38.289 --> 00:02:43.129
of festers and grows. And then you start to stockpile

00:02:43.129 --> 00:02:45.330
these over time. And eventually it all just kind

00:02:45.330 --> 00:02:47.469
of bubbles to the surface. And then it all comes

00:02:47.469 --> 00:02:49.810
out at once. And you blindside the other person

00:02:49.810 --> 00:02:52.490
out of nowhere or to them it's out of nowhere.

00:02:52.550 --> 00:02:54.449
To you, it's been building for however long,

00:02:54.569 --> 00:02:57.650
but it's totally unfair because all this time

00:02:57.650 --> 00:03:00.110
you've been carrying it and they didn't know

00:03:00.110 --> 00:03:01.550
and you haven't given them the opportunity to

00:03:01.550 --> 00:03:03.990
even to address it, to be aware of it, to deal

00:03:03.990 --> 00:03:06.449
with it. And it becomes this large sort of calamity

00:03:06.449 --> 00:03:08.569
within the relationship that if you had just

00:03:08.569 --> 00:03:11.430
said what you needed to say and knew how to deliver

00:03:11.430 --> 00:03:13.210
it in a way that, you know, wasn't going to break

00:03:13.210 --> 00:03:16.270
rapport or even if it did, it would be a small.

00:03:16.939 --> 00:03:20.259
fracture as opposed to this large eruption right

00:03:20.259 --> 00:03:23.080
yeah these things tend not to go away on their

00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:25.979
own they actually get bigger and they grow a

00:03:25.979 --> 00:03:28.840
podcaster i really like chris williamson people

00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:30.840
will have heard of him probably has this quote

00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:32.400
i don't remember if it's an original quote of

00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:34.120
his or if he got it from somewhere but i got

00:03:34.120 --> 00:03:37.460
it from him and he said something like uncommunicated

00:03:37.460 --> 00:03:41.620
expectations are premeditated resentments and

00:03:41.620 --> 00:03:43.039
i thought that was brilliant yeah that's really

00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:47.000
good so Feedback on an individual level, super

00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:50.680
important. Zooming out a bit in an organization

00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:54.000
or a family or a group or a team, you can actually

00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:57.060
cultivate a feedback culture. And this is when

00:03:57.060 --> 00:03:59.340
feedback is normalized in the group and when

00:03:59.340 --> 00:04:02.500
people have a common context and a common way

00:04:02.500 --> 00:04:06.300
of interpreting it. So not as a threat, but as

00:04:06.300 --> 00:04:09.060
a gift. For example, this is now a superpower.

00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:11.060
This is where you get really high performing

00:04:11.060 --> 00:04:14.340
teams. high -functioning families with a solid

00:04:14.340 --> 00:04:16.579
foundation. It's almost always the case that

00:04:16.579 --> 00:04:21.060
this open, honest dialogue is normalized. It's

00:04:21.060 --> 00:04:23.680
appreciated. It's even expected. Yeah. To the

00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:25.339
point where, hey, if you've got feedback for

00:04:25.339 --> 00:04:27.439
me and you withhold it, I'll be angry at you

00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:29.740
for not sharing it because you're denying me

00:04:29.740 --> 00:04:31.819
an opportunity to get better. Yeah. And how dare

00:04:31.819 --> 00:04:34.040
you? You owe me this. Think about it this way,

00:04:34.100 --> 00:04:35.860
right? My partner often asks me if there's anything

00:04:35.860 --> 00:04:38.339
in her teeth. She's seeking out feedback, but

00:04:38.339 --> 00:04:41.410
hey, we just ate. Do I have any green vegetables?

00:04:41.529 --> 00:04:45.250
Yeah. And if I were to just kind of like cower

00:04:45.250 --> 00:04:47.069
away from that, I don't know. Everything's fine.

00:04:47.149 --> 00:04:48.589
Right. And then she goes and looks in the mirror

00:04:48.589 --> 00:04:50.449
and sees you. Let me walk around with spinach

00:04:50.449 --> 00:04:52.250
in my teeth all night. She's not gonna be happy

00:04:52.250 --> 00:04:54.129
about that. No. So, I mean, think of it the same

00:04:54.129 --> 00:04:55.670
way, right? You're giving somebody a gift. Hey,

00:04:55.810 --> 00:04:57.649
you got some spinach in your teeth. You should

00:04:57.649 --> 00:04:59.509
probably do something to remove that because

00:04:59.509 --> 00:05:01.410
everybody sees it. Yeah. That's the other thing

00:05:01.410 --> 00:05:03.230
is when you're giving feedback, it's probably

00:05:03.230 --> 00:05:06.170
something that other people see as well. In fact,

00:05:06.189 --> 00:05:08.879
it's often the person. The recipient is the only

00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:11.560
one who doesn't know it. And they're walking

00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:13.319
around with blinders on. Yeah. And there's this

00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:14.819
thing that other people can see. And if it bugs

00:05:14.819 --> 00:05:17.040
you, it might bug other people. Definitely. And

00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:19.480
they don't know it. So it's like the sooner you

00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:20.879
can make them aware of it, the sooner they can

00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:23.480
address it and no longer have an unintended negative

00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:27.160
impact on others, which is a good thing, unambiguously

00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:31.339
a good thing, right? Yeah. So when it comes to

00:05:31.339 --> 00:05:33.620
feedback, we talked about normalizing it, making

00:05:33.620 --> 00:05:35.860
it expected. A good question to check in with

00:05:35.860 --> 00:05:38.220
yourself right now. Is feedback something that

00:05:38.220 --> 00:05:40.360
you welcome or is feedback something that you

00:05:40.360 --> 00:05:43.079
fear receiving? Is feedback something that you

00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:47.639
fear delivering? Yeah. So a few words on what

00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:51.779
feedback is not. It's not criticism. It's not

00:05:51.779 --> 00:05:55.420
blame. It's not attack or judgment. You're not

00:05:55.420 --> 00:05:58.379
making the other person wrong. Right. And it's

00:05:58.379 --> 00:06:02.019
absolutely not punishment. Right? Like, I'll

00:06:02.019 --> 00:06:05.730
show you. None of that is feedback. All of those

00:06:05.730 --> 00:06:08.930
things are just dominance games, which you might

00:06:08.930 --> 00:06:11.689
mask as feedback, which makes it a dominance

00:06:11.689 --> 00:06:14.810
game and then a lie and a pretense that you're

00:06:14.810 --> 00:06:17.689
not playing a dominance game. That all has very

00:06:17.689 --> 00:06:20.069
predictable results. So these are things to keep

00:06:20.069 --> 00:06:21.709
in mind when you're delivering feedback, like

00:06:21.709 --> 00:06:24.069
don't come from a place of criticism, blame,

00:06:24.230 --> 00:06:27.189
judgment, etc. Yeah. Equally, though, as the

00:06:27.189 --> 00:06:29.129
recipient, if someone's giving you feedback,

00:06:29.269 --> 00:06:33.319
make a conscious point of. not interpreting it

00:06:33.319 --> 00:06:34.860
through any of those negative lenses because

00:06:34.860 --> 00:06:37.579
if you've got that filter on if your default

00:06:37.579 --> 00:06:40.459
setting is to interpret it as blame criticism

00:06:40.459 --> 00:06:44.000
attack you're setting yourself up to get defensive

00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:47.259
and that'll trigger your own threat response

00:06:47.259 --> 00:06:48.879
and then you'll push it away and you'll justify

00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:51.819
and you'll make excuses and it'll cause a very

00:06:51.819 --> 00:06:54.800
familiar and unpleasant flavor for the conversation

00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:57.540
for everyone and it just won't work so so don't

00:06:57.540 --> 00:06:59.899
do that make a conscious effort to listen through

00:06:59.899 --> 00:07:02.180
a different lens And to deliver it through a

00:07:02.180 --> 00:07:05.279
different lens. So what is that lens? The lens

00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:06.959
that we want to look at things through, you said

00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:09.639
this to me a few minutes ago, is assume positive

00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:13.079
intent. Yeah. Quality feedback. What is it? It's

00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:15.860
a few things. It's insight that you're providing

00:07:15.860 --> 00:07:20.300
to someone else about themselves in service of

00:07:20.300 --> 00:07:23.620
their growth. That's important because that's

00:07:23.620 --> 00:07:26.120
the intention behind it. It's I'm giving you

00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:29.500
this so that you can improve. So to that point,

00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:31.949
it should be constructive. It should be helpful,

00:07:32.170 --> 00:07:34.110
right? I want to see you improve. I want to see

00:07:34.110 --> 00:07:36.170
you do better. Here are some things you can do

00:07:36.170 --> 00:07:38.110
better. Like you said before, it's not judgment.

00:07:38.189 --> 00:07:40.230
It's not blame. It's not, here are all the things

00:07:40.230 --> 00:07:42.790
that you do wrong. It's easy to tear somebody

00:07:42.790 --> 00:07:45.110
down, but we want to build somebody up. So it

00:07:45.110 --> 00:07:46.930
should be a contribution. This is a gift that

00:07:46.930 --> 00:07:49.009
you're giving somebody else. Like we said earlier,

00:07:49.189 --> 00:07:51.310
you're probably not the only person that sees

00:07:51.310 --> 00:07:55.089
this. So you're giving this person a gift. And

00:07:55.089 --> 00:07:56.689
the other thing is, is if you're not the only

00:07:56.689 --> 00:07:59.990
person who sees this and you are the only person

00:07:59.990 --> 00:08:03.550
who's brave enough to say it that's a very generous

00:08:03.550 --> 00:08:05.569
thing to do that's a very brave thing to do it

00:08:05.569 --> 00:08:08.110
takes a lot of courage to give feedback one of

00:08:08.110 --> 00:08:09.810
the scary things about giving feedback is it

00:08:09.810 --> 00:08:13.689
risks breaking rapport and it risks causing an

00:08:13.689 --> 00:08:16.750
awkward conversation and in the worst case you're

00:08:16.750 --> 00:08:18.790
putting the relationship at risk or the quality

00:08:18.790 --> 00:08:20.990
of it because if the person really strongly has

00:08:20.990 --> 00:08:23.269
a negative reaction it could cost you something

00:08:23.269 --> 00:08:25.810
it could cost you maybe not the whole relationship

00:08:25.810 --> 00:08:29.509
but the quality of it right so for someone to

00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:33.159
be willing to put the relationship at risk in

00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:35.919
order to deliver feedback is a real commitment

00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:38.320
to something good. It's a commitment to the other

00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:41.500
person. And it's worth keeping that in mind that

00:08:41.500 --> 00:08:43.519
this person is risking something to deliver the

00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:45.240
feedback to you. Or if you're the person doing

00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:47.740
it, there's something noble about it because

00:08:47.740 --> 00:08:52.320
you're not hiding out. You know, like someone

00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:54.620
breaks up with a partner they've had for a while.

00:08:54.700 --> 00:08:56.019
And then after the breakup, all their friends

00:08:56.019 --> 00:08:57.480
say, oh, you know what? Like, thank God I didn't

00:08:57.480 --> 00:08:59.360
like that person. And I knew they were toxic.

00:08:59.950 --> 00:09:02.909
Why didn't you tell me before? Right. Yeah. Where

00:09:02.909 --> 00:09:05.309
was that earlier? Yeah. Well, I didn't want to

00:09:05.309 --> 00:09:07.409
risk the relationship or I thought you would

00:09:07.409 --> 00:09:09.690
get mad at me or I thought it would, you know,

00:09:09.690 --> 00:09:12.149
ruin things between us. Yeah. And you might've

00:09:12.149 --> 00:09:13.429
done a lot of good. You might've, you might've

00:09:13.429 --> 00:09:14.909
helped the person out. I think that's something

00:09:14.909 --> 00:09:16.610
else to think about though, is, is you need to

00:09:16.610 --> 00:09:18.789
be considerate. And that comes back to when we

00:09:18.789 --> 00:09:20.850
said what feedback is not right. Criticism, blame,

00:09:20.970 --> 00:09:22.669
judgment, make sure you're not coming from a

00:09:22.669 --> 00:09:25.529
judgmental place. Right. And as a footnote, like

00:09:25.529 --> 00:09:28.899
it's not necessarily. always the right thing

00:09:28.899 --> 00:09:30.879
to do to tell someone that you're not a fan of

00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:32.259
their romantic partner. That's right. There's

00:09:32.259 --> 00:09:34.919
a lot of nuance. Yeah. And a case by case sort

00:09:34.919 --> 00:09:36.639
of thing there. I use that as an example that

00:09:36.639 --> 00:09:39.960
sometimes might apply, sometimes not. So that's

00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:41.940
maybe a deeper topic for another time. Yeah.

00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:43.559
You need to make sure that you're checking in

00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:46.100
with yourself and using good judgment. This is

00:09:46.100 --> 00:09:48.279
not carte blanche to just start delivering feedback.

00:09:48.299 --> 00:09:50.679
This is not relationship advice. Please contact

00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:55.590
your... Your financial advisor. So feedback is

00:09:55.590 --> 00:09:57.570
a superpower. If you're giving good feedback,

00:09:57.669 --> 00:10:01.330
it is a high level skill to be able to deliver

00:10:01.330 --> 00:10:04.850
feedback in a clear, concise, positive and relationship

00:10:04.850 --> 00:10:07.629
building way. Yeah. It's also a superpower to

00:10:07.629 --> 00:10:10.789
be able to receive feedback. It's probably harder

00:10:10.789 --> 00:10:13.409
to receive feedback in a clean slate. It is.

00:10:13.470 --> 00:10:17.360
And then if you want the boss level skill. choose

00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:20.139
to hear feedback through the constructive lens

00:10:20.139 --> 00:10:23.220
that we just illustrated, even if it's not being

00:10:23.220 --> 00:10:25.720
delivered that way. In other words, if someone

00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:29.220
comes at you and their energy, their vibe is

00:10:29.220 --> 00:10:32.419
loaded with criticism, blame, attack, the automatic

00:10:32.419 --> 00:10:34.299
response you're going to have is to get your

00:10:34.299 --> 00:10:36.679
backup and to want to push back on it. If you

00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:38.659
can have the presence of mind and the wherewithal

00:10:38.659 --> 00:10:43.019
to choose to hear it as a contribution anyway.

00:10:43.610 --> 00:10:46.509
Even if there's like anger and muck and blame

00:10:46.509 --> 00:10:50.990
in your way, that is the boss level, Jedi level

00:10:50.990 --> 00:10:53.389
application of what we're talking about here.

00:10:53.730 --> 00:10:55.830
That's going to be tough, but we're putting it

00:10:55.830 --> 00:10:58.470
in the space here as an aspiration to strive

00:10:58.470 --> 00:11:00.690
for, because it is possible. It is totally possible

00:11:00.690 --> 00:11:02.649
to do that. There's always something to learn.

00:11:02.750 --> 00:11:04.269
I mean, if someone's giving you feedback, there's

00:11:04.269 --> 00:11:06.570
something in there for you. Yeah. Even if there's

00:11:06.570 --> 00:11:09.789
noise, there's probably some signal. If you can

00:11:09.789 --> 00:11:12.059
listen for the signal through the noise. You'll

00:11:12.059 --> 00:11:16.440
be better off for it. Yeah. So how and why do

00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:19.279
we get so weird about this? Why are we weird

00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:21.659
with feedback? Yeah. Or how do we make it weird

00:11:21.659 --> 00:11:24.059
first? And then we can get into why. Ways that

00:11:24.059 --> 00:11:26.200
we make feedback weird. We deliver it for the

00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:28.759
wrong reasons. We are in the wrong emotional

00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:30.879
state. We're in the wrong mental state, right?

00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:32.559
The dominance games we just talked about. The

00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:33.919
dominance games you mentioned. Yeah. We want

00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:36.460
to make it personal. You're being rude. You're

00:11:36.460 --> 00:11:39.559
too aggressive. You're a very sarcastic person

00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:42.990
when you speak. Right. That's important. We often

00:11:42.990 --> 00:11:45.289
deliver feedback in the way that we phrase it

00:11:45.289 --> 00:11:48.269
or reframe it is it's like a character attack

00:11:48.269 --> 00:11:50.789
that threatens the person's identity. Yeah. Rather

00:11:50.789 --> 00:11:53.009
than just their behavior. And that's not feedback.

00:11:53.149 --> 00:11:54.549
It's not good feedback. It's not good feedback.

00:11:54.610 --> 00:11:56.529
No. Yeah. Like you said, it triggers a defense

00:11:56.529 --> 00:11:59.870
reaction in the person. So yeah, the usual defense

00:11:59.870 --> 00:12:02.889
mechanisms, right? Like the fight, flight, freeze,

00:12:03.009 --> 00:12:05.769
fawn will come up and then it goes, it doesn't

00:12:05.769 --> 00:12:07.990
go well because you're not talking to a well

00:12:07.990 --> 00:12:10.370
-resourced grounded adult. You're now talking

00:12:10.370 --> 00:12:13.110
to an amygdala. Which is like an angry lizard.

00:12:13.289 --> 00:12:16.409
Yeah. Other ways that we get weird about feedback

00:12:16.409 --> 00:12:18.409
or we deliver it in weird ways, we water down

00:12:18.409 --> 00:12:20.129
the message, right? That's something that we

00:12:20.129 --> 00:12:22.330
really see often play out with people. They're

00:12:22.330 --> 00:12:24.610
too afraid, so they dance around the message.

00:12:24.929 --> 00:12:27.210
They get vague about what they're trying to say

00:12:27.210 --> 00:12:29.470
to avoid hurting the other people's feelings,

00:12:29.710 --> 00:12:32.570
right? And it's excruciating. It's so painful

00:12:32.570 --> 00:12:35.210
to watch somebody beat around the bush. You can

00:12:35.210 --> 00:12:36.830
tell they want to say something, but they're

00:12:36.830 --> 00:12:38.950
super awkward about it and they're using vague

00:12:38.950 --> 00:12:40.970
words and they're... trying to say a thing without

00:12:40.970 --> 00:12:43.230
saying it, it sub communicates a few things.

00:12:43.289 --> 00:12:45.190
If you really think about it, say there's somebody

00:12:45.190 --> 00:12:48.990
that you normally have a friendly conversational

00:12:48.990 --> 00:12:51.990
rapport with. Yeah. And all of a sudden they're

00:12:51.990 --> 00:12:54.070
kind of tense and they're formal and they're

00:12:54.070 --> 00:12:56.450
using, you can tell they're dancing around an

00:12:56.450 --> 00:12:58.509
issue. They're pointing at something. Yeah. It's

00:12:58.509 --> 00:13:01.450
weird. It's weird when someone is speaking to

00:13:01.450 --> 00:13:03.830
you in a way that's just not the normal way.

00:13:04.070 --> 00:13:05.950
And it also tells you a couple of things. It

00:13:05.950 --> 00:13:09.350
tells you that they have something to say. and

00:13:09.350 --> 00:13:12.049
that they're too afraid to say it. So what does

00:13:12.049 --> 00:13:15.909
that say? It implies either that the person doesn't

00:13:15.909 --> 00:13:19.509
have enough faith in you to be able to just hear

00:13:19.509 --> 00:13:21.350
it like an adult. So that's kind of insulting

00:13:21.350 --> 00:13:24.090
and condescending. They're afraid, right? And

00:13:24.090 --> 00:13:25.889
it's like, it's sort of, I thought we were closer

00:13:25.889 --> 00:13:28.330
than that. I thought we were tight and could

00:13:28.330 --> 00:13:30.809
just speak plainly. It creates an automatic sense

00:13:30.809 --> 00:13:32.950
of distance when you are watering down the message

00:13:32.950 --> 00:13:34.789
with somebody. It can come across as though the

00:13:34.789 --> 00:13:36.529
person who's trying to deliver feedback thinks

00:13:36.529 --> 00:13:40.059
that they're feedback is so earth shattering

00:13:40.059 --> 00:13:42.259
that it could be life or world ending. Right.

00:13:42.379 --> 00:13:45.100
Right. What you have to say is not that important.

00:13:45.259 --> 00:13:48.080
So check your ego at the door. It implies that

00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:50.320
they think you're fragile. Yes. And frail. Yeah.

00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:52.580
And that's kind of insulting. Yeah, that is insulting.

00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:55.679
One other thing we do is we deliver it way too

00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:58.200
late. You sit on it for too long. Yeah. You know,

00:13:58.220 --> 00:13:59.639
like, oh, this has been bothering me for months.

00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:02.360
OK, well, why didn't you tell me months ago?

00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:04.759
We're both adults here. So don't don't sit on

00:14:04.759 --> 00:14:06.230
it for too long. Yeah. The other thing about

00:14:06.230 --> 00:14:08.750
waiting too long is that memories fade over time

00:14:08.750 --> 00:14:13.190
and details get blurry and it leaves more scope

00:14:13.190 --> 00:14:15.190
for disagreement about what actually happened.

00:14:15.289 --> 00:14:18.409
And these things kind of fade and get more distant

00:14:18.409 --> 00:14:20.750
over time. And when it's crisp and it's fresh,

00:14:20.990 --> 00:14:23.590
you can have a much more constructive, concrete,

00:14:23.750 --> 00:14:25.789
tangible conversation about it. Whereas if it's

00:14:25.789 --> 00:14:28.289
something that happened a year ago, it's just

00:14:28.289 --> 00:14:30.570
tougher and there's less to grab onto. If we're

00:14:30.570 --> 00:14:32.470
trying to keep it timely, right? Hey, this just

00:14:32.470 --> 00:14:35.850
happened. It can kind of morph into, You always

00:14:35.850 --> 00:14:40.289
do X or right. Right. Is that that's a nonstarter

00:14:40.289 --> 00:14:42.370
for a conversation as well. Absolutely. It is.

00:14:42.470 --> 00:14:44.929
Yeah. Well, the last thing we do that doesn't

00:14:44.929 --> 00:14:46.649
work is we just avoid it altogether and don't

00:14:46.649 --> 00:14:48.490
say anything, which, again, presumes that the

00:14:48.490 --> 00:14:50.649
other person is too fragile to hear it or that

00:14:50.649 --> 00:14:53.330
you're too big of a coward and cowardly, frankly,

00:14:53.409 --> 00:14:56.029
to do it. And it robs the other person of an

00:14:56.029 --> 00:14:59.009
opportunity to grow and improve. And you're planting

00:14:59.009 --> 00:15:03.370
a seed for a future resentment. So now, all of

00:15:03.370 --> 00:15:05.169
that being said, we've been. Speaking about this

00:15:05.169 --> 00:15:08.730
in a lighthearted way, as though it's easy. It's

00:15:08.730 --> 00:15:11.090
simple, but it's not easy. It's not easy. Because

00:15:11.090 --> 00:15:13.629
if it's this simple, why do most people, why

00:15:13.629 --> 00:15:15.950
does almost everybody struggle with this? So

00:15:15.950 --> 00:15:19.669
just a quick word to normalize your likely experience.

00:15:20.409 --> 00:15:23.490
There's a reason we're as afraid as we are about

00:15:23.490 --> 00:15:26.529
breaking rapport with people. And if you think

00:15:26.529 --> 00:15:28.269
about it in terms of evolutionary history, for

00:15:28.269 --> 00:15:32.610
most of our evolutionary past, human beings grew

00:15:32.610 --> 00:15:35.700
up in and lived in These small nomadic tribes

00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:39.100
of like 50 to 150 people out there in an extraordinarily

00:15:39.100 --> 00:15:41.759
dangerous world. Yeah. If you're rejected by

00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:44.159
the tribe, worst case, you're ostracized, you're

00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:45.799
kicked out, and you'd be dead within a week.

00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:48.840
Yeah. So in the wiring of our brains over millions

00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:51.919
and millions of years, there's a very close connection

00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:56.539
between social rejection and death. So if you're

00:15:56.539 --> 00:15:58.700
someone who panics and feels a lot of anxiety

00:15:58.700 --> 00:16:01.120
around giving feedback, have some grace with

00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:03.490
yourself because... Millions of years of evolutionary

00:16:03.490 --> 00:16:06.789
history have you feel that way for historically

00:16:06.789 --> 00:16:09.009
good reasons. Now, in the last couple hundred

00:16:09.009 --> 00:16:12.250
years, life has gotten a lot safer for those

00:16:12.250 --> 00:16:16.529
of us that live in the privileged, modern, industrialized

00:16:16.529 --> 00:16:19.710
worlds. Yeah. So breaking social rapport is not

00:16:19.710 --> 00:16:22.909
linked to death in reality, but evolution is

00:16:22.909 --> 00:16:26.110
very slow and life has changed fast. So we are

00:16:26.110 --> 00:16:30.169
twitchy humans living in a cushy world. That

00:16:30.169 --> 00:16:32.379
sounds like a... Like it could be a song from

00:16:32.379 --> 00:16:34.480
the 80s. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good talking

00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:38.580
head song. Yeah, totally. All right. So we talked

00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:40.820
about why things get weird. We've talked about

00:16:40.820 --> 00:16:44.480
why you might feel weird about it. So now let's

00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:46.580
talk about how to do this right. How can we deliver

00:16:46.580 --> 00:16:50.100
feedback in a productive way and in a way that

00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:53.179
is of the most benefit? So what are some qualities

00:16:53.179 --> 00:16:55.580
of effective feedback? First of all, we talked

00:16:55.580 --> 00:16:58.399
about making sure that it's timely. I want to

00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:00.620
give feedback when it's fresh. I want to give

00:17:00.620 --> 00:17:03.399
it when the least amount of time has passed because

00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:06.339
the more time that passes, the fuzzier our memories

00:17:06.339 --> 00:17:08.980
get and the more resentment builds up and the

00:17:08.980 --> 00:17:11.099
more sort of generic things get. And then, you

00:17:11.099 --> 00:17:12.859
know, people come to you and they say, oh, you

00:17:12.859 --> 00:17:16.079
never do this and you always do that. And that's

00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:18.220
just a recipe for someone to get their back up.

00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:20.640
And your feedback is not going to land and it's

00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:22.779
not going to be heard. It needs to be specific.

00:17:22.900 --> 00:17:24.960
We talked about vagaries. We talked about dancing

00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:27.579
around things. So don't make your feedback generic.

00:17:28.269 --> 00:17:30.730
Make sure it's not broad, that it's specific.

00:17:31.150 --> 00:17:33.349
Don't extrapolate. Don't make generalizations.

00:17:33.910 --> 00:17:37.490
Don't make assumptions. Be precise. Hey, on this

00:17:37.490 --> 00:17:39.890
day, you did this thing. Yeah. We want it to

00:17:39.890 --> 00:17:42.529
be objective as well. So stick to the facts.

00:17:42.789 --> 00:17:45.990
Avoid interpretations. Watch out for stories

00:17:45.990 --> 00:17:48.650
that we invent about other people, right? Oh,

00:17:48.690 --> 00:17:50.970
this person is so sarcastic with me all of the

00:17:50.970 --> 00:17:55.369
time. Judgments, assumptions. Especially on this

00:17:55.369 --> 00:17:59.559
one. We often have a tendency to form like a

00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:02.079
theory of mind about the other person where we

00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:05.460
make assumptions about their intentions. Right.

00:18:05.559 --> 00:18:08.680
And then the feedback is not about what they

00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:11.700
did. It's about what we think they meant or intended.

00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:14.980
And this is one where I get super frustrated

00:18:14.980 --> 00:18:17.900
because it's like to me being misjudged by someone.

00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:19.720
It's like, don't tell me what's going on in my

00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:21.980
head. Right. Tell me what I did and tell me how

00:18:21.980 --> 00:18:26.700
it impacted you. Right. All fair game. But don't

00:18:26.700 --> 00:18:29.980
tell me why I did it. Yeah. Phrase it as a question.

00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:32.279
Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah. It's difficult to sit

00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:33.920
with someone's story about who they think you

00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:35.920
are. Especially if it's off the mark, which it

00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:39.259
almost always is. Yeah. So we talked about timely,

00:18:39.420 --> 00:18:42.339
specific, objective. And the other thing we want

00:18:42.339 --> 00:18:45.000
to make sure of is that it's actionable. It should

00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.460
be clear what the other person can do. So how

00:18:48.460 --> 00:18:50.660
can I improve this in the future, right? Here's

00:18:50.660 --> 00:18:52.339
the thing about feedback. If you give feedback

00:18:52.339 --> 00:18:54.680
based on here's what you have done, here's how

00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:57.220
you screwed up, there's not a lot I can do to

00:18:57.220 --> 00:18:59.619
undo the past. But if you give me feedback in

00:18:59.619 --> 00:19:01.920
the way of, here's what has happened in the past,

00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:03.480
and here's what I would like to see happen in

00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:06.180
the future, that's actionable. I can do something

00:19:06.180 --> 00:19:08.339
about that. And now there's a point to it. It's

00:19:08.339 --> 00:19:11.039
not just, hey, you suck, or you did a thing that

00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:14.640
was terrible. It's, here's how, again, we talked

00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:17.279
about how feedback is how we improve. So improvement

00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:18.839
is a thing that hasn't happened yet. It's in

00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:21.220
the future. So making it actionable and being

00:19:21.220 --> 00:19:23.480
specific about what the other person can do differently

00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:25.960
moving forward in order to grow. So those are

00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:28.799
the qualities of effective feedback. What do

00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:31.000
we want to do in terms of steps? What steps can

00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:32.859
we take to make sure that - Yeah, how do we do

00:19:32.859 --> 00:19:36.039
that? As with any high stakes conversation, it's

00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:38.539
a good idea to go in with an intentional mindset.

00:19:39.220 --> 00:19:42.079
So one golden rule here is feedback is by far

00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:45.180
the best when both the giver and receiver are

00:19:45.180 --> 00:19:49.420
well -resourced, meaning you're not tired or

00:19:49.420 --> 00:19:52.109
worn out or hungry. Oh yeah, I can definitely

00:19:52.109 --> 00:19:53.869
think of some times when people delivered feedback

00:19:53.869 --> 00:19:56.170
and I was hungry. Yeah, or hangry, right? Yeah,

00:19:56.170 --> 00:19:58.910
yeah. So well -resourced means you're in a good

00:19:58.910 --> 00:20:01.470
place. You're feeling stable, solid, grounded.

00:20:01.589 --> 00:20:04.069
Most of your biological needs are met, et cetera.

00:20:04.230 --> 00:20:06.670
So that's a note on timing and setting yourself

00:20:06.670 --> 00:20:09.210
up for success. Yeah. Another thing you can do

00:20:09.210 --> 00:20:12.670
is go through a process to get your head right

00:20:12.670 --> 00:20:14.890
before you deliver the feedback. So we're going

00:20:14.890 --> 00:20:16.930
to do another episode on a particular intention

00:20:16.930 --> 00:20:19.009
-setting exercise called a CPR. That's right.

00:20:19.130 --> 00:20:21.769
We can link to it. Somewhere here. Yeah. But

00:20:21.769 --> 00:20:25.089
in short, the idea is go through a process to

00:20:25.089 --> 00:20:26.789
get yourself in the right headspace first. And

00:20:26.789 --> 00:20:29.910
so what that means is set clear intentions so

00:20:29.910 --> 00:20:32.369
that the state, the vibe, the energy you bring

00:20:32.369 --> 00:20:37.170
to the conversation is cleared of any anger,

00:20:37.230 --> 00:20:39.910
judgment, frustration, fear, weirdness, all the

00:20:39.910 --> 00:20:41.630
things that make it weird. You want to clear

00:20:41.630 --> 00:20:44.710
that out of the space and then create a positive

00:20:44.710 --> 00:20:47.990
conscious intention. On clearing, I think that's

00:20:47.990 --> 00:20:50.309
great. So getting clear, right? Making yourself

00:20:50.309 --> 00:20:53.170
clear, getting yourself clear. Something that

00:20:53.170 --> 00:20:56.450
might benefit you is sitting down with a third

00:20:56.450 --> 00:20:59.869
party beforehand and just venting out whatever

00:20:59.869 --> 00:21:03.710
you need to vent, frustrations, upset, so that

00:21:03.710 --> 00:21:06.930
you're coming at this from a clean place. And

00:21:06.930 --> 00:21:09.130
what we mean when we say a clean place is you

00:21:09.130 --> 00:21:12.910
don't have any of that residual sort of muck

00:21:12.910 --> 00:21:17.700
from frustrations, resentments. Yeah, and you

00:21:17.700 --> 00:21:21.400
can do this on your own or with a sounding board,

00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:23.680
with a partner, a coach, a friend, a third party.

00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:27.200
Either way, what it looks like is just take inventory

00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:29.519
of all the noise that's in your mental space,

00:21:29.740 --> 00:21:32.279
right? So you can say, I notice I'm feeling angry

00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:35.779
or judgmental or outraged, or I notice I'm feeling

00:21:35.779 --> 00:21:37.779
awkward and I'm afraid of how they'll respond,

00:21:37.940 --> 00:21:41.079
or I'm feeling uncomfortable. As you name each

00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:44.940
of these contaminants in your head space, You're

00:21:44.940 --> 00:21:46.900
consciously letting them go. Yeah. You're just

00:21:46.900 --> 00:21:48.480
kind of naming it and putting it down. It's sort

00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:51.079
of like if you've ever had the experience of

00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:54.339
you're trying to sleep and your mind is just

00:21:54.339 --> 00:21:57.180
racing with all the things you have to do. And

00:21:57.180 --> 00:22:00.680
what can help is just get out of bed, grab a

00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.779
pen and a notepad and write that stuff down.

00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:07.059
And as you write it down. you're getting it out

00:22:07.059 --> 00:22:08.779
of your head and now you don't have to cycle

00:22:08.779 --> 00:22:10.599
on it anymore and then you can fall asleep. You

00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:11.799
don't have to think about it because you put

00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:13.160
it down. Because you captured it somewhere. It's

00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:14.859
there for you to think about later. So this process

00:22:14.859 --> 00:22:17.279
is very much analogous to that. You're taking

00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:19.160
inventory of all the stuff that's in your head

00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:21.299
in order to get it out of your head and just

00:22:21.299 --> 00:22:23.220
let it go. So you can do this with a document.

00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:25.200
You can just speak it out loud and have someone

00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:28.640
say, got it. What else? And you'll feel yourself

00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:30.940
get lighter and your mind get clearer as you

00:22:30.940 --> 00:22:33.799
go. And then you don't have that in your head

00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:36.420
to bring into the conversation. Exactly. And

00:22:36.420 --> 00:22:38.339
then once you're clear of the noise, now you've

00:22:38.339 --> 00:22:40.259
got a blank slate and you can create a set of

00:22:40.259 --> 00:22:42.859
positive intentions to come from. There's an

00:22:42.859 --> 00:22:44.900
infinite number of these, but we'll give you

00:22:44.900 --> 00:22:47.779
a few to give you a sense of the flavor of it,

00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:49.519
right? So one of the things is when we're giving

00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:52.200
people feedback, as we talked about, a big part

00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:54.420
of this is probably your intention is to help

00:22:54.420 --> 00:22:57.220
somebody, right? Oftentimes when we see something

00:22:57.220 --> 00:23:00.460
that someone else maybe doesn't see, we want

00:23:00.460 --> 00:23:02.579
to offer it to them. You're giving them the gift

00:23:02.579 --> 00:23:05.740
of awareness. Here's something that you might

00:23:05.740 --> 00:23:07.660
not be aware of that I need you to be aware of

00:23:07.660 --> 00:23:10.859
so that we can move forward and move forward

00:23:10.859 --> 00:23:13.660
better, put ourselves on a better path. So you

00:23:13.660 --> 00:23:15.980
want to give someone a gift. You want to support

00:23:15.980 --> 00:23:17.960
somebody. And you want to approach that with

00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:19.480
humility because you're not a perfect person

00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:21.920
either. That's super important. Remember that

00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:24.519
we're all flawed human beings, right? We've all

00:23:24.519 --> 00:23:28.019
got our spiky bits. And so you always want to

00:23:28.019 --> 00:23:29.640
approach feedback with empathy and compassion,

00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:31.779
right? We're all just doing our best to get our

00:23:31.779 --> 00:23:33.819
needs met out here. And you don't know another

00:23:33.819 --> 00:23:37.079
person's whole life story. We all got to be the

00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:39.319
way we are somehow. You know, we're the product

00:23:39.319 --> 00:23:42.740
of genetics, nature, nurture, the sum total of

00:23:42.740 --> 00:23:45.440
our past experiences. And if you walked through

00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:48.920
someone else's life in their shoes, their behaviors

00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:51.619
and reactions in a given situation make perfect

00:23:51.619 --> 00:23:54.380
sense from their perspective, even if it's a

00:23:54.380 --> 00:23:56.799
head scratcher to you. Remember that. And some

00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:58.640
of your behaviors and reactions might be head

00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:00.299
scratchers to other people, even though they

00:24:00.299 --> 00:24:03.740
make perfect sense from your perspective. So

00:24:03.740 --> 00:24:06.420
we're all kind of in this together. None of us

00:24:06.420 --> 00:24:08.920
really knows what the hell we're doing, but we

00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:10.579
can help each other out. One of our friends,

00:24:10.700 --> 00:24:13.720
Andrew, had this metaphor about a bunch of sharp

00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:16.259
rocks. And if you put them in a bag together,

00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:18.720
over time, the sharp rocks kind of polish each

00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:21.740
other smooth. So it's not like any one of us

00:24:21.740 --> 00:24:24.960
is perfect. I'm a sharp rock. You're a sharp

00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:27.700
rock. But together we can help smooth out the

00:24:27.700 --> 00:24:29.339
rough edges for each other. Well, I like what

00:24:29.339 --> 00:24:31.160
you said. Like we want to give people grace.

00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:33.339
And I think the flip side of that is there are

00:24:33.339 --> 00:24:36.559
people out there who are offering you that graciousness

00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:39.180
and you may not even be aware of it. So totally,

00:24:39.339 --> 00:24:42.000
totally. So we talked about setting an intention,

00:24:42.140 --> 00:24:44.319
clearing your head and then consciously choosing

00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:47.900
a positive intention to go into the conversation

00:24:47.900 --> 00:24:51.440
with. Then what you want to do is. When you're

00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:53.140
approaching the person to offer feedback, you

00:24:53.140 --> 00:24:55.039
want to state your intentions and then invite

00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:57.819
them into the conversation. A few key points

00:24:57.819 --> 00:25:01.240
here. Firstly, and this one, if there's one thing

00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:04.039
you take away from this, maybe it's this. Get

00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:07.779
right to it. Don't beat around the bush. Don't

00:25:07.779 --> 00:25:11.420
dance around it. Get right to it. And also, be

00:25:11.420 --> 00:25:13.500
explicit about it. Tell them that this is a feedback

00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:16.339
conversation. Don't try to smuggle feedback in

00:25:16.339 --> 00:25:18.420
through the back door when you're talking about

00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:21.599
something else. Don't be sneaky. Yeah, that's

00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:24.220
a really frustrating position. And I'm sure many

00:25:24.220 --> 00:25:25.759
people have found themselves in that position,

00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:28.500
right? That's a fairly universal position to

00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:30.740
be in. Someone has something that they're sort

00:25:30.740 --> 00:25:33.240
of sneaking into a conversation that's feedback

00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:36.339
oriented. Be intentional. Ask for consent. Invite

00:25:36.339 --> 00:25:38.160
them into the conversation. That's probably the

00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:40.099
best way to do this. So important. So important.

00:25:40.339 --> 00:25:42.819
So what does that look like? It's, hey, Patrick,

00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:45.940
I'd like to give you some feedback about that

00:25:45.940 --> 00:25:48.630
phone call we were both on the other day. Are

00:25:48.630 --> 00:25:50.789
you open to it and is now a good time? I'm open

00:25:50.789 --> 00:25:53.049
to it. This is not a good time because I only

00:25:53.049 --> 00:25:56.490
have 15 minutes or I'm recording a podcast or,

00:25:56.490 --> 00:25:59.190
you know. Right. But can we set a time to do

00:25:59.190 --> 00:26:01.750
it? Exactly. So the two components there, tell

00:26:01.750 --> 00:26:04.210
them what you're up to. I'd like to give you

00:26:04.210 --> 00:26:07.170
some feedback. Super clear. Okay, now they know

00:26:07.170 --> 00:26:09.690
what the conversation is. Are you open to that?

00:26:10.490 --> 00:26:12.950
And is now a good time. And as I think we said

00:26:12.950 --> 00:26:14.650
on another episode, but it's worth repeating

00:26:14.650 --> 00:26:17.049
here. A few things happen when you invite someone

00:26:17.049 --> 00:26:19.009
in and you ask for their consent to participate

00:26:19.009 --> 00:26:22.349
in the conversation. Firstly, people almost always

00:26:22.349 --> 00:26:24.210
say they're open to it because we all want to

00:26:24.210 --> 00:26:25.950
think of ourselves as people who are open to

00:26:25.950 --> 00:26:28.130
feedback. No one wants to say, no, I'm like,

00:26:28.190 --> 00:26:30.009
I'm closed minded and resistant to feedback.

00:26:30.690 --> 00:26:34.470
So you're tapping into the higher part of someone's

00:26:34.470 --> 00:26:37.109
sense of themselves, their identity. Yes, I want

00:26:37.109 --> 00:26:38.470
to be the kind of person who's open to feedback.

00:26:38.549 --> 00:26:42.880
So, yes. Now, once they've said yes. in a way

00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:44.420
they've committed to something. Firstly, they

00:26:44.420 --> 00:26:46.420
feel empowered because you asked, right? You're

00:26:46.420 --> 00:26:48.740
not doing something to them and imposing it on

00:26:48.740 --> 00:26:50.480
them. You're asking them and you're giving them

00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:52.960
agency, which shows deference and you're empowering

00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:55.119
them to opt in or out. You're not bludgeoning

00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:56.799
them with feedback. You're not just running in

00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:58.720
and saying like, hey, here are all the ways that

00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:00.660
you're an asshole. Right. You're asking, are

00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:02.599
they open to it? So once they opt in, they're

00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:05.380
already going to be more receptive because they've

00:27:05.380 --> 00:27:08.339
had a choice to participate. And then once we

00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:13.160
choose yes. we're now kind of bound by this desire

00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:15.440
to be consistent. I just said I was open to it,

00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:19.039
so I better be open to it. It does so much towards

00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:21.059
setting the conversation up for success. It's

00:27:21.059 --> 00:27:23.440
just that one piece. Here's what I'd like to

00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:26.880
do. Are you up for that? And the other part is,

00:27:26.900 --> 00:27:29.119
is now a good time? Because as Patrick modeled,

00:27:29.339 --> 00:27:31.680
it could be that, yes, I'm open to feedback,

00:27:31.779 --> 00:27:34.220
but I'm late for a meeting. Can we set an appointment

00:27:34.220 --> 00:27:38.269
for next Tuesday? On that topic. It might be

00:27:38.269 --> 00:27:39.829
urgent. You might have to give them feedback.

00:27:40.130 --> 00:27:42.349
It might be time sensitive for one reason or

00:27:42.349 --> 00:27:45.190
another. So, um, yeah, what do you do then? Yeah.

00:27:45.269 --> 00:27:47.410
What do I do then? Well, first of all, I want

00:27:47.410 --> 00:27:49.490
to check myself if I don't have time to clear,

00:27:49.589 --> 00:27:52.750
like we talked about earlier, right? Naming and

00:27:52.750 --> 00:27:56.049
owning my frustrations is important. So, Hey,

00:27:56.150 --> 00:27:57.890
I need to give you some feedback. It's rather

00:27:57.890 --> 00:27:59.690
urgent. The first thing I need to do though,

00:27:59.730 --> 00:28:01.750
is I'm really frustrated right now with the way

00:28:01.750 --> 00:28:04.349
that things just went. that's mine to own. So

00:28:04.349 --> 00:28:06.609
if you could please just listen past my frustration,

00:28:06.690 --> 00:28:09.170
don't take it personally. Is that something you're

00:28:09.170 --> 00:28:12.009
able to do? And then that's brilliant, right?

00:28:12.109 --> 00:28:14.670
Like sometimes it'll be, you have to give the

00:28:14.670 --> 00:28:16.869
feedback quickly for whatever reason. And you

00:28:16.869 --> 00:28:19.450
won't, you won't have time to get into your like

00:28:19.450 --> 00:28:23.230
ultimate Zen Buddha meditative state to do it.

00:28:23.250 --> 00:28:24.809
And you might be aware that you're angry or you're

00:28:24.809 --> 00:28:26.910
frustrated or you've got some gunk on you just

00:28:26.910 --> 00:28:30.309
owning it and saying, Hey, like I'm frustrated.

00:28:30.410 --> 00:28:34.490
That's my shit. So, don't take that personally.

00:28:34.589 --> 00:28:36.009
And I'm not trying to put that on you. I get

00:28:36.009 --> 00:28:39.690
that that's mine to manage. Yeah. Can you hear

00:28:39.690 --> 00:28:41.730
some valuable feedback, even though I'm a bit

00:28:41.730 --> 00:28:43.769
edgy about it? Yeah. I mean, maybe you just came

00:28:43.769 --> 00:28:45.390
out of a meeting with a client. Now you're going

00:28:45.390 --> 00:28:47.849
into another meeting with a client and, you know,

00:28:47.849 --> 00:28:50.049
something that happened in the last one can't

00:28:50.049 --> 00:28:52.970
happen in this one. Or it's also possible that

00:28:52.970 --> 00:28:55.369
maybe this is something that you were holding

00:28:55.369 --> 00:28:57.609
onto as a resentment that's come up again, right?

00:28:57.750 --> 00:28:59.490
The last time we were at your parents' place,

00:28:59.710 --> 00:29:01.940
you really threw me under the bus with. With

00:29:01.940 --> 00:29:04.079
your mother and we can't have that happen again.

00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:05.940
And it's just coming up for me right now that

00:29:05.940 --> 00:29:08.299
we've gotten into the driveway. And I really

00:29:08.299 --> 00:29:10.480
need to just talk this through with you before

00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:12.579
we walk through that door. Right, right. So it's

00:29:12.579 --> 00:29:15.640
on the spot, but it's important enough to deal

00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:17.480
with right now. Yeah. Even though you don't have

00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:19.059
the time to clear. Well, because otherwise it's

00:29:19.059 --> 00:29:21.140
going to contaminate the next interaction. Yeah.

00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:23.359
So, you know, use your judgment on that one.

00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:25.980
But a good technique, as you said, is just name

00:29:25.980 --> 00:29:28.619
what's in your space and own it. Yeah. And that

00:29:28.619 --> 00:29:31.079
helps the other person to. To not have to react

00:29:31.079 --> 00:29:34.180
to it, to not get defensive about it. Yeah. Okay.

00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:37.119
So now onto the framework. We promised you a

00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:39.440
specific framework for how to deliver feedback

00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:42.740
effectively. And here we go. The compliment sandwich.

00:29:42.980 --> 00:29:44.700
Everyone knows the compliment. That's what we're

00:29:44.700 --> 00:29:47.460
doing, right? We are not doing the feedback sandwich.

00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:50.579
We're not doing this. I thought that's the one

00:29:50.579 --> 00:29:53.160
that that's the only one I know. Right. Obviously,

00:29:53.180 --> 00:29:54.819
we're being a bit facetious here. You probably

00:29:54.819 --> 00:29:57.400
heard of the. The feedback sandwich, say something

00:29:57.400 --> 00:29:59.319
positive, then say something negative, and then

00:29:59.319 --> 00:30:01.460
say something positive again. I call that the

00:30:01.460 --> 00:30:07.339
shit sandwich. I guess it can work, but it's

00:30:07.339 --> 00:30:10.420
more often than not, that just comes across as

00:30:10.420 --> 00:30:13.460
artificial and fake and plastic. It's like, I'm

00:30:13.460 --> 00:30:15.740
buttering you up with this positive thing, and

00:30:15.740 --> 00:30:16.980
then the whole time you're giving me the positive

00:30:16.980 --> 00:30:19.019
thing, I'm like, you're buttering me up. Yeah,

00:30:19.039 --> 00:30:22.839
yeah. This is so condescending. Will you just

00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:24.759
tell me the thing? So you've started with an

00:30:24.759 --> 00:30:27.299
insult. And now you're going to get to the meat

00:30:27.299 --> 00:30:28.700
of it, and then you're going to close with another

00:30:28.700 --> 00:30:31.119
insult. It's a compliment, but it's insulting

00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:33.000
that you think I'm stupid enough not to know

00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:35.680
what you're up to. So don't, just don't. So we're

00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:37.859
not going to mask our feedback with two compliments.

00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:40.140
No. So then what is the framework we're going

00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:42.599
to offer? Right. The framework we're offering

00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:45.319
is, it's an extension of something you may have

00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:48.900
heard of called the SBI framework, which stands

00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:52.339
for Situation Behavior Impact. We've added two

00:30:52.339 --> 00:30:55.890
components onto the end. An R and a C. So it's

00:30:55.890 --> 00:31:00.829
S -B -I -R -C, situation, behavior, impact, then

00:31:00.829 --> 00:31:04.690
a request or a recommendation. And then the last

00:31:04.690 --> 00:31:07.710
piece is the check -in or confirmation that the

00:31:07.710 --> 00:31:09.750
message landed. All right. So let's break it

00:31:09.750 --> 00:31:14.829
down. S -B -I -R -C. S is for situation. So we

00:31:14.829 --> 00:31:16.750
want to anchor feedback in a specific moment

00:31:16.750 --> 00:31:19.049
in time. We talked about being specific, right?

00:31:19.390 --> 00:31:26.430
Here's what happened. specific moment. So yesterday's

00:31:26.430 --> 00:31:30.329
meeting or last weekend at dinner at my parents'

00:31:30.430 --> 00:31:34.109
place. Set the stage. What was the situation?

00:31:34.390 --> 00:31:36.950
And you don't need to go into great detail, but

00:31:36.950 --> 00:31:38.650
you need to tell them, you need to help the person

00:31:38.650 --> 00:31:41.869
situate themselves in a particular place in time

00:31:41.869 --> 00:31:43.430
so they know what you're talking about. Then

00:31:43.430 --> 00:31:45.589
we're looking at the behavior. So what happened,

00:31:45.650 --> 00:31:48.890
right? Not what you felt, not your speculation

00:31:48.890 --> 00:31:51.920
about what their motives were. Or who you think

00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:54.039
they are or what they bring to the table in those

00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:57.380
ways. Not your story about it. And this is important.

00:31:57.559 --> 00:32:01.240
Keep it super concrete. It's just the facts.

00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:05.079
One way of testing this, the behavior is what

00:32:05.079 --> 00:32:07.000
someone would describe if they were watching

00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:10.279
video footage of it. Right. Like I see a person

00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:12.740
walk into a room and then I see them throw a

00:32:12.740 --> 00:32:17.180
staple across the table. Like, right. As opposed

00:32:17.180 --> 00:32:20.779
to you tried to kill me. Well. Maybe, maybe not.

00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:22.980
It's you threw a staple at my head, a stapler

00:32:22.980 --> 00:32:24.960
at my head. Yeah. Fair enough. That's an actual

00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:28.220
behavior. Yeah. So, um, the behavior. So we said

00:32:28.220 --> 00:32:32.059
situation in yesterday's meeting behavior, you

00:32:32.059 --> 00:32:34.099
interrupted Maria twice while she was speaking.

00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:37.140
Perfect. There's no judgment there. There's no,

00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:40.660
you were a real jerk to Maria. There's no, wow.

00:32:40.740 --> 00:32:42.640
I can't believe the things that you said. It's

00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:44.740
just, just the fact, just the facts. You interrupted

00:32:44.740 --> 00:32:47.880
Maria twice while she was speaking. Right. So

00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:51.559
situation. Behavior. Next is impact. So this

00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:55.519
is how the specific action, the behavior affected

00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:59.319
either you or or someone else or the trajectory

00:32:59.319 --> 00:33:01.240
of a project. Right. You're naming the impact.

00:33:01.299 --> 00:33:03.380
So in yesterday's meeting, you interrupted Maria

00:33:03.380 --> 00:33:06.539
twice when she was speaking. That made it hard

00:33:06.539 --> 00:33:08.720
for her to get a point across. And I noticed

00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:11.220
that she seemed to shut down. Right. So she stopped

00:33:11.220 --> 00:33:13.740
talking. She stopped contributing. And now going

00:33:13.740 --> 00:33:16.240
forward, it's possible that she's not going to

00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:19.759
contribute in meetings further. So there's the

00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:23.839
impact of the behavior from the situation, SBI,

00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:27.339
situation, behavior, impact. Next is the request.

00:33:28.119 --> 00:33:30.779
So make a clear ask. Can we agree to let people

00:33:30.779 --> 00:33:33.240
finish their thoughts before jumping in? That's

00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:35.940
a specific change that the person can make moving

00:33:35.940 --> 00:33:38.000
forward to make it better. And then the last

00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:40.680
part is check in. What did you take from what

00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:42.279
I just shared? How did that land with you? I

00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:44.579
think that's probably one of the most important

00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:46.859
pieces. It's great to give feedback. You can

00:33:46.859 --> 00:33:50.539
be a master. at giving feedback. If I'm a brick

00:33:50.539 --> 00:33:52.920
wall and I don't get what you just said, you've

00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:55.819
just wasted all of your time. So checking in

00:33:55.819 --> 00:33:57.779
with a person, what did you just take away from

00:33:57.779 --> 00:34:00.680
what I said? Can they mirror back to you what

00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:03.880
you just said to them, what you just gave to

00:34:03.880 --> 00:34:05.839
them? And in the example we just cited, it was

00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:08.519
such a super simplistic example. In yesterday's

00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:09.900
meeting, you interrupted someone a couple of

00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:12.519
times. They couldn't get their point across and

00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:14.099
then they shut down. What are you taking from

00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:17.940
it? Like, it's hard to misinterpret that. But

00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:19.619
it'll often be the case that the feedback you're

00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:21.239
delivering maybe is a little more nuanced or

00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:23.760
complex. And it's actually possible for people

00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:25.739
to have different takeaways from the same set

00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:28.179
of words. So especially when it's a little more

00:34:28.179 --> 00:34:30.719
nuanced or complex, you really want to linger

00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:33.280
on that check -in piece and just get them to

00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:36.039
paraphrase back to you what they heard and what

00:34:36.039 --> 00:34:38.460
you said and make sure that it's right. And if

00:34:38.460 --> 00:34:41.019
you need to go back and forth a bit until there's

00:34:41.019 --> 00:34:43.780
contact, then take the time to do that. And with

00:34:43.780 --> 00:34:46.619
this SBI model, the SBI piece is great because

00:34:46.619 --> 00:34:50.260
the person gets to see where the impact happened.

00:34:50.699 --> 00:34:53.780
But the request and the and the check in are

00:34:53.780 --> 00:34:55.820
really that they're going to be the key pieces.

00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:57.920
Right. Here's how we can make things better in

00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.940
the future. Did you understand or what did you

00:35:00.940 --> 00:35:03.159
take away from what I just said? And can you

00:35:03.159 --> 00:35:04.860
agree to the request? Well, yeah, that's another

00:35:04.860 --> 00:35:07.900
piece. Right. Or do you have a counteroffer or

00:35:07.900 --> 00:35:09.500
some reason why that's not going to work? Right.

00:35:10.099 --> 00:35:12.940
So why does this work? A few reasons. It's factual,

00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:15.460
right? It's just the facts. It's stripped of

00:35:15.460 --> 00:35:18.099
any accusations, assumptions about intent, judgments.

00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:20.280
You're not assaulting their character. It's just

00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:24.019
the facts. That's one. It's also clear and unambiguous.

00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:27.860
It's not vague. It's direct. Direct is kind.

00:35:28.179 --> 00:35:31.340
It's nonjudgmental. It's hard to push back against.

00:35:31.619 --> 00:35:33.199
This is the other thing. Sometimes people do

00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:35.619
get defensive when we give them feedback. And

00:35:35.619 --> 00:35:38.519
if you accuse someone of something... That's

00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:41.579
either vague or unambiguous or too general. Yeah.

00:35:41.719 --> 00:35:44.519
Or if you make an accusation about their motive

00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:47.840
or their intention. There's lots of room to argue

00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:50.280
about that. Right. Yeah. If you're just sharing

00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:53.159
impact, it's much harder because you're not.

00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:55.340
It's like, look, the other day when you interrupted

00:35:55.340 --> 00:35:58.880
me, I felt I felt disrespected. I felt diminished.

00:36:00.260 --> 00:36:03.139
Tough to argue with. You can't argue about how

00:36:03.139 --> 00:36:05.320
I felt. It's impact on me. It's mine to share.

00:36:05.420 --> 00:36:09.219
So it. eliminates the scope for debate about

00:36:09.219 --> 00:36:11.820
it, which is a good thing. In the future, could

00:36:11.820 --> 00:36:14.260
you just let me finish my sentence and then step

00:36:14.260 --> 00:36:16.340
in rather than just stepping on what it is? And

00:36:16.340 --> 00:36:17.900
that's the last part, right? It's constructive

00:36:17.900 --> 00:36:20.920
and it's forward focused, right? It ends with

00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:23.679
a path forward rather than just dwelling in the

00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:26.360
past. So that's another thing that works about

00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:30.780
it. So we talked about earlier why things don't

00:36:30.780 --> 00:36:33.800
work. Just to summarize some things not to do,

00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:37.130
right? Don't sugarcoat it. No. It's excruciating.

00:36:37.130 --> 00:36:40.289
It's insulting. Clarity is kindness. Yeah. So

00:36:40.289 --> 00:36:42.210
don't use the compliment sandwich. Yeah, don't

00:36:42.210 --> 00:36:44.929
do that. Don't use it as a power move or a guilt

00:36:44.929 --> 00:36:48.610
trip, right? Like that's super nasty. Like make

00:36:48.610 --> 00:36:50.469
sure you're doing this in order to benefit the

00:36:50.469 --> 00:36:52.409
other person. We also want to avoid weaseling

00:36:52.409 --> 00:36:55.130
out of things, right? So if we're giving direct

00:36:55.130 --> 00:36:58.409
feedback, let's give direct feedback. Let's not

00:36:58.409 --> 00:37:00.869
walk into it with, listen, I'm just kind of,

00:37:00.869 --> 00:37:03.949
I'm just saying, or. I don't want to offend you.

00:37:04.030 --> 00:37:06.710
No offense, but? Yeah. That is always offensive.

00:37:06.789 --> 00:37:09.130
When has someone said no offense, but, and then

00:37:09.130 --> 00:37:12.110
has that ever had you feel less offended with

00:37:12.110 --> 00:37:13.769
what came next? It sort of sets you up with,

00:37:13.829 --> 00:37:16.489
I'm about to say something offensive, and I'm

00:37:16.489 --> 00:37:18.670
just claiming dibs on not having any accountability

00:37:18.670 --> 00:37:20.909
for it. You better not get upset when I say this.

00:37:20.909 --> 00:37:22.809
No offense, but, or don't take this the wrong

00:37:22.809 --> 00:37:24.469
way. Don't take this the wrong way. Yeah, don't

00:37:24.469 --> 00:37:26.050
take this the wrong way. Yeah. Well, how are

00:37:26.050 --> 00:37:27.409
you expecting me to take it? You know what? I'm

00:37:27.409 --> 00:37:29.190
pretty sure I'm about to take it exactly the

00:37:29.190 --> 00:37:31.730
right way. That's what that tells me. I know

00:37:31.730 --> 00:37:33.510
exactly how you don't want me to take this. And

00:37:33.510 --> 00:37:35.550
that is the way. And that's exactly probably

00:37:35.550 --> 00:37:38.170
where you're coming from. Yeah. Avoid non -apologies.

00:37:38.210 --> 00:37:40.090
We did it. We did an episode earlier about how

00:37:40.090 --> 00:37:43.829
to apologize. So sorry if you're upset, but I

00:37:43.829 --> 00:37:46.829
just need to let you know that. And and also

00:37:46.829 --> 00:37:49.150
weaponized truth. You see that. Oh, yeah. I'm

00:37:49.150 --> 00:37:51.969
just being honest. Right. That's a justification.

00:37:52.250 --> 00:37:55.010
It's a weaponized truth. Such a great phrase.

00:37:55.289 --> 00:37:58.130
So avoid the Weasley phrases. Just get to it.

00:37:58.190 --> 00:38:04.440
Yeah. Now. Let's say you take all of our advice

00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:07.039
here and you get yourself into a clear headspace

00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:10.460
and you follow this situation, behavior, impact,

00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:14.500
request, check -in format. Obviously, that's

00:38:14.500 --> 00:38:17.880
not a guarantee. No. I mean, sometimes our feedback

00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:21.340
doesn't land, right? Sometimes things don't play

00:38:21.340 --> 00:38:23.619
out the way that we would want them to or expect

00:38:23.619 --> 00:38:25.880
that they might. So what are some reasons why

00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:28.260
feedback doesn't land? First of all, somebody

00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:30.599
might not be ready. to receive the feedback.

00:38:30.739 --> 00:38:33.000
So that's where that check -in piece before we

00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:34.880
even start. Hey, there's something I need to

00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:36.380
say to you. There's some feedback I'd like to

00:38:36.380 --> 00:38:38.639
give you. Are you open to it right now? Is now

00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:41.440
a good time? Or when is a good time? Yeah, if

00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:43.079
not, when is a good time? Unresolved history

00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:46.460
could be another one. So if you've got some tension

00:38:46.460 --> 00:38:48.179
with someone already and there's an unresolved

00:38:48.179 --> 00:38:50.800
history, feedback might not land in that case.

00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:52.079
Yeah, that's a really good point. If there's

00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:56.420
unresolved stuff from the past in the space between

00:38:56.420 --> 00:38:58.949
you and a particular person, whatever you say

00:38:58.949 --> 00:39:02.550
to them is on top of all of that. And so you

00:39:02.550 --> 00:39:04.530
may want to go back and clean house and resolve

00:39:04.530 --> 00:39:07.929
some of that stuff first, or maybe you're not

00:39:07.929 --> 00:39:10.429
the person to deliver the feedback. I'm sure

00:39:10.429 --> 00:39:12.670
we've all had the experience of being able to

00:39:12.670 --> 00:39:15.309
hear something from certain people in your life,

00:39:15.349 --> 00:39:17.510
but having a very different reaction when someone

00:39:17.510 --> 00:39:19.690
else says it. Why is that? Because of the history.

00:39:19.849 --> 00:39:21.989
On the topic of history, it's also possible that...

00:39:22.250 --> 00:39:25.070
you're very good at giving feedback and the person

00:39:25.070 --> 00:39:27.030
you're giving it to is very bad at giving feedback.

00:39:27.110 --> 00:39:29.769
And they just have a whole list of things that

00:39:29.769 --> 00:39:31.730
you've done that have offended them. And when

00:39:31.730 --> 00:39:33.969
you give them a single piece of feedback, they

00:39:33.969 --> 00:39:37.369
just break out the list. Yeah, we're part of

00:39:37.369 --> 00:39:39.949
a group that calls it running a list on somebody.

00:39:39.989 --> 00:39:42.110
It's like when you have this stockpile of resentments

00:39:42.110 --> 00:39:43.530
you haven't addressed. It's like you're running

00:39:43.530 --> 00:39:45.570
a list on another person. They may have a list

00:39:45.570 --> 00:39:47.150
on you that they haven't addressed. So at that

00:39:47.150 --> 00:39:48.989
point, we might want to clear their list first

00:39:48.989 --> 00:39:51.650
before we give them our feedback. Right. And

00:39:51.650 --> 00:39:55.170
that's where your ability to receive feedback

00:39:55.170 --> 00:39:57.789
in a gracious way and not get your backup is

00:39:57.789 --> 00:40:00.789
going to be your golden ticket. Totally. Totally.

00:40:00.929 --> 00:40:04.329
Yeah. Another reason is sometimes it just hits

00:40:04.329 --> 00:40:06.070
a deeper nerve with somebody and you may have

00:40:06.070 --> 00:40:08.889
no visibility into this. Maybe it reminds them

00:40:08.889 --> 00:40:11.530
of something hurtful that a parent said or a

00:40:11.530 --> 00:40:15.690
teacher said 40 years ago. Yeah. And it just

00:40:15.690 --> 00:40:17.969
triggers, it brings up an old wound that you

00:40:17.969 --> 00:40:19.250
couldn't have seen coming and they just have

00:40:19.250 --> 00:40:21.460
a... an overblown reaction to it. That can happen.

00:40:22.460 --> 00:40:25.659
So the key here is let go of control. Let go

00:40:25.659 --> 00:40:28.559
of expectation about the outcome. You can offer

00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:31.400
some clarity. You can offer feedback. You can't

00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:35.099
force acceptance. The goal here isn't to be agreed

00:40:35.099 --> 00:40:38.639
with. The goal is to be honest and open and give

00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:41.159
the person an opportunity to grow. That's a good

00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:44.019
one. Yeah. So this is an offering. This is not

00:40:44.019 --> 00:40:46.460
the capital T truth about a person. This is.

00:40:47.050 --> 00:40:49.110
You know, what you observed in a moment of time,

00:40:49.230 --> 00:40:51.610
you're a fallible human being. Maybe your feedback

00:40:51.610 --> 00:40:53.409
is going to land. Maybe it's not. Maybe they

00:40:53.409 --> 00:40:56.289
disagree with you and might be biased. We all

00:40:56.289 --> 00:40:57.869
have our own biases and lenses through which

00:40:57.869 --> 00:40:59.409
we view the world. So this is where a little

00:40:59.409 --> 00:41:02.050
bit of humility comes in. Recognize that your

00:41:02.050 --> 00:41:03.969
take on things, as you said, isn't the capital

00:41:03.969 --> 00:41:08.289
T truth. It's just one human being's fallible,

00:41:08.409 --> 00:41:11.289
slightly distorted perspective helping to calibrate

00:41:11.289 --> 00:41:15.099
another. And, you know, it's often. Easier to

00:41:15.099 --> 00:41:16.880
see someone else's situation more objectively

00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:19.199
than our own. Not that the feedback is objective,

00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:22.780
but it's maybe closer to objective than the person

00:41:22.780 --> 00:41:24.920
who is receiving it or who was in it. So make

00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:27.019
sure you got the right intentions, be skillful

00:41:27.019 --> 00:41:28.880
in how you deliver it, and then let go of the

00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:30.719
outcome and be gracious and give the person space.

00:41:31.099 --> 00:41:34.900
Give them grace in terms of how they receive

00:41:34.900 --> 00:41:38.059
the feedback. And here's another one. Sometimes

00:41:38.059 --> 00:41:41.300
in the moment, a person may push back on the

00:41:41.300 --> 00:41:42.800
feedback because it's uncomfortable. They get

00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:45.969
defensive. And they can do that either in a high

00:41:45.969 --> 00:41:48.869
energy kind of angry way or they can do it just

00:41:48.869 --> 00:41:52.110
kind of calmly dodging and weaving and changing

00:41:52.110 --> 00:41:55.510
the subject or all the things we do. I've had

00:41:55.510 --> 00:41:57.670
the experience of giving feedback to someone

00:41:57.670 --> 00:42:00.050
and having them in the moment. It seemed like

00:42:00.050 --> 00:42:02.809
they were not they were resistant to it. But

00:42:02.809 --> 00:42:06.190
then I noticed a sharp, distinct, unambiguous

00:42:06.190 --> 00:42:08.210
change in their behavior moving forward. Right.

00:42:08.269 --> 00:42:11.130
So in the conversation, maybe they were saving

00:42:11.130 --> 00:42:14.539
face. They seemed resistant to the feedback,

00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:17.480
but they changed their behavior, which tells

00:42:17.480 --> 00:42:19.920
me that they took it seriously and they took

00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:22.719
it on. So resist the urge to draw too many conclusions

00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:25.099
based on how somebody reacts in the moment. They

00:42:25.099 --> 00:42:27.719
may need some time to process. They may need

00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:29.440
to save face in the conversation, but they may

00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:31.420
actually take it on anyway. I don't expect to

00:42:31.420 --> 00:42:33.059
see a change overnight. Sometimes it takes a

00:42:33.059 --> 00:42:36.039
while to digest this sort of stuff and integrate

00:42:36.039 --> 00:42:39.019
it into our pattern of behavior and the way we

00:42:39.019 --> 00:42:42.530
operate in the world. And... When someone does

00:42:42.530 --> 00:42:44.769
make a change, when they make an effort to do

00:42:44.769 --> 00:42:48.670
better, acknowledge that and give them that positive

00:42:48.670 --> 00:42:50.789
feedback as well. If you've asked somebody to

00:42:50.789 --> 00:42:54.269
make a behavioral change and they do, take the

00:42:54.269 --> 00:42:56.389
opportunity to reinforce it. Hey, I noticed lately

00:42:56.389 --> 00:42:58.349
you've been better about X or Y or you've been

00:42:58.349 --> 00:43:01.050
doing this thing. Like, I really appreciate that.

00:43:01.090 --> 00:43:02.929
That really helped. It's made a difference. I

00:43:02.929 --> 00:43:04.550
think that's a whole other piece is we're talking

00:43:04.550 --> 00:43:07.070
about feedback here from the perspective of letting

00:43:07.070 --> 00:43:08.789
somebody know what they could change in the future.

00:43:09.380 --> 00:43:11.480
Don't be stingy with your feedback when it comes

00:43:11.480 --> 00:43:13.940
to the opposite. That might even be more effective

00:43:13.940 --> 00:43:16.320
to let people know what's going right. Yeah.

00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:18.019
Because people want to know that they're doing

00:43:18.019 --> 00:43:20.920
well and doing right by people. Positive recognition.

00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:24.860
Yeah. 100%. Huge. In my coaching work, I encourage

00:43:24.860 --> 00:43:26.599
people all the time to do this because we're,

00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:28.239
again, our brains have a built -in negativity

00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:31.960
bias because for evolutionary purposes, it was

00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:34.380
better to just be on the lookout for threats

00:43:34.380 --> 00:43:36.559
and assume the worst and run when you hear a

00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:39.099
rustle in the bushes. rather than being open

00:43:39.099 --> 00:43:40.760
-minded to it and being like, oh, it's maybe

00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:42.500
not a bear. Let me go and just smell the roses.

00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:45.079
Like those early humans ended up being lunch

00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:48.699
and their genes aren't as widely distributed.

00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:51.739
So positive feedback, recognition, we tend to

00:43:51.739 --> 00:43:54.199
be stingy about because we just don't notice

00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:55.760
the positive as much as we notice the negative.

00:43:56.579 --> 00:43:58.360
But if you're a part of an organization, especially

00:43:58.360 --> 00:44:02.219
if you're a leader, this is the best free...

00:44:02.999 --> 00:44:05.500
magic morale booster you're going to get. Yeah.

00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:07.380
Make it part of the culture there. You know,

00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:10.019
feedback should be cyclical. It should be habitual.

00:44:10.219 --> 00:44:12.539
It's not just a one -off event like, hey, this

00:44:12.539 --> 00:44:14.099
is how you screwed up. I don't want to see it

00:44:14.099 --> 00:44:15.599
happen in the future. Here's what you can do

00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:18.480
better. And then drop the mic. Follow -ups are

00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:20.980
important. Making sure that we're, hey, remember

00:44:20.980 --> 00:44:22.880
that conversation that we had three weeks ago.

00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:25.119
I just want to say, you're doing a great job.

00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:28.079
Keep it up, right? Don't just drop your feedback

00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:31.880
and then disappear. Reinforce that change. Following

00:44:31.880 --> 00:44:34.900
up builds trust. The other thing you can do is

00:44:34.900 --> 00:44:37.139
you can ask others for feedback. This one is

00:44:37.139 --> 00:44:39.980
huge. Get in the habit of asking people for feedback.

00:44:40.820 --> 00:44:42.679
There have actually been, I think, psychological

00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:44.960
studies on this that show that feedback is most

00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:49.039
effective when it's requested. So if I ask you

00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:50.800
for it because I want it, now I'm definitely

00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:53.079
receptive. Now the gloves are off. Yeah, exactly.

00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:55.639
So get in the habit of asking other people for

00:44:55.639 --> 00:44:58.179
feedback. And if others ask you for feedback...

00:44:58.409 --> 00:45:00.070
Take the time and be thoughtful about it. Yeah.

00:45:00.190 --> 00:45:01.949
Don't hold back. They're asking you for something

00:45:01.949 --> 00:45:05.269
and be generous by being honest. If you're asking

00:45:05.269 --> 00:45:09.210
for feedback, one way to help people frame it,

00:45:09.269 --> 00:45:10.969
because it's kind of a big question. If you just

00:45:10.969 --> 00:45:12.849
ask broadly, do you have any feedback for me?

00:45:12.969 --> 00:45:16.210
Yeah. It's such a blue sky, huge question. Either

00:45:16.210 --> 00:45:19.449
narrow the scope and say, like, I'm looking for

00:45:19.449 --> 00:45:23.489
feedback on how I conduct meetings or how well

00:45:23.489 --> 00:45:25.530
I delegate or how I hold people accountable.

00:45:25.909 --> 00:45:27.610
So you can point them in a particular direction.

00:45:28.329 --> 00:45:30.929
The other thing you can do is there's the start,

00:45:30.969 --> 00:45:33.610
stop, continue model, right? What should I start

00:45:33.610 --> 00:45:35.789
doing that I'm not already doing? What should

00:45:35.789 --> 00:45:38.030
I stop doing? And what should I continue doing?

00:45:38.170 --> 00:45:41.150
Yeah. What works well? What's not working? And

00:45:41.150 --> 00:45:44.510
what should I put in place? Yeah. Start, stop,

00:45:44.550 --> 00:45:46.510
continue. Start, stop, continue is an easy one.

00:45:47.449 --> 00:45:49.289
Okay. And then the more you normalize these check

00:45:49.289 --> 00:45:51.550
-ins, if you're on a team and you can create

00:45:51.550 --> 00:45:53.730
a culture of feedback, this is like the secret

00:45:53.730 --> 00:45:56.630
sauce for a super high -performing team. One

00:45:56.630 --> 00:45:58.969
last thing. There's also this concept of feed

00:45:58.969 --> 00:46:01.130
forward, which is very similar, but it's kind

00:46:01.130 --> 00:46:02.909
of swapping out the word to remind people that

00:46:02.909 --> 00:46:04.510
the purpose of this is not to dwell on the past.

00:46:04.590 --> 00:46:06.769
Yeah. It's to improve in the future. So instead

00:46:06.769 --> 00:46:08.929
of focusing on what went wrong, what went right?

00:46:08.989 --> 00:46:11.489
What can we do next? What can we do better? Yeah.

00:46:11.510 --> 00:46:13.989
Next time, let's try doing this instead. Another

00:46:13.989 --> 00:46:17.969
phrase you can use is it's the even better if

00:46:17.969 --> 00:46:19.730
model for giving feedback. Oh, that's a good

00:46:19.730 --> 00:46:22.210
one. I like that. Which is like, say somebody

00:46:22.210 --> 00:46:23.849
gives a presentation. They did a few things well,

00:46:23.949 --> 00:46:25.969
but you have some notes for how they can improve.

00:46:26.110 --> 00:46:29.530
Yeah. how thorough you were, how detail -oriented.

00:46:30.389 --> 00:46:33.050
If you're open to some feedback, pause, get a

00:46:33.050 --> 00:46:35.670
nod. Moving forward, it would be even better

00:46:35.670 --> 00:46:39.250
if you provided an executive summary in the first

00:46:39.250 --> 00:46:40.909
slide. I have a friend who played in a band and

00:46:40.909 --> 00:46:44.769
I went to go see them. And he's so magnetic on

00:46:44.769 --> 00:46:47.289
stage, you really just want to watch him. And

00:46:47.289 --> 00:46:48.829
they've got this lighting guy that comes with

00:46:48.829 --> 00:46:50.190
them and they do all these crazy lights. And

00:46:50.190 --> 00:46:51.690
one of the things that he's not great at doing

00:46:51.690 --> 00:46:55.099
is standing in the light, right? And so after

00:46:55.099 --> 00:46:56.420
the show, they were coming back, they were staying

00:46:56.420 --> 00:46:58.079
at my place. And I said to him, like, do you

00:46:58.079 --> 00:46:59.699
mind if I just give you like a little bit of

00:46:59.699 --> 00:47:01.820
feedback here? And he was like, yeah, absolutely.

00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:04.199
And I said, find your light. And he said, find

00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:05.920
your light. What do you mean? I said, when those

00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:08.800
lighting hits happen during your songs, you're

00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:11.239
not actually standing where the light is. You're

00:47:11.239 --> 00:47:13.500
off to the side. If you could just stand in the

00:47:13.500 --> 00:47:15.559
light, it would be so much more impactful. And

00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:17.239
a year later he came back and they played in

00:47:17.239 --> 00:47:19.119
Toronto again. And he said to me, I just want

00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:21.159
to say like, thank you for that. That was huge.

00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:23.980
The rest of that tour and like subsequent tours

00:47:23.980 --> 00:47:26.980
now, I know to find my light and it really does

00:47:26.980 --> 00:47:29.179
make a huge difference. Fantastic. That's a great

00:47:29.179 --> 00:47:32.139
example of like great show. Even better. If you

00:47:32.139 --> 00:47:34.619
could be mindful of finding the light at the

00:47:34.619 --> 00:47:36.940
right times, it'll be even a bigger impact. Brilliant.

00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:42.570
So in summary, we covered a lot here. Yeah. The

00:47:42.570 --> 00:47:46.809
SBIRC model gives you some structure. This idea

00:47:46.809 --> 00:47:49.510
of feed forward and focusing on what we can do

00:47:49.510 --> 00:47:52.010
better moving forward gives you direction. Yeah,

00:47:52.070 --> 00:47:56.010
looping back, normalizing feedback as just something

00:47:56.010 --> 00:47:59.269
that happens in the culture of whether it's a

00:47:59.269 --> 00:48:02.010
workplace, a relationship, a family unit. And

00:48:02.010 --> 00:48:04.269
asking for feedback. Asking for feedback. All

00:48:04.269 --> 00:48:07.130
those things build culture over time. So a challenge

00:48:07.130 --> 00:48:09.420
for you. Give one piece of thoughtful feedback

00:48:09.420 --> 00:48:12.739
this week. Use that SBIRC framework. This is

00:48:12.739 --> 00:48:14.480
a tool you're going to put in your tool belt.

00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:16.880
If you want to build on it, put it into practice.

00:48:17.099 --> 00:48:19.719
It can be something small, but just give a thoughtful

00:48:19.719 --> 00:48:21.619
piece of feedback to somebody in your life and

00:48:21.619 --> 00:48:24.760
use that SBIRC model. Drop a comment. Let us

00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:26.539
know how it went. We'd love to hear about it.

00:48:26.980 --> 00:48:29.920
Absolutely. As always, thanks for tuning in.

00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:31.840
We hope this was useful. See you in the next

00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:32.000
one.